USFL to eliminate chains, measure first downs with chip in ball and yellow line on TV

USFL to eliminate chains, measure first downs with chip in ball and yellow line on TV

When it's time to measure for a first down in the USFL, the officials will call for a high-tech solution in place of the decidedly low-tech 10-yard chains that have been used in football for a century.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

USFL to eliminate chains, measure first downs with chip in ball and yellow line on TV​

When it’s time to measure for a first down in the USFL, the officials will call for a high-tech solution in place of the decidedly low-tech 10-yard chains that have been used in football for a century.

The USFL played a preseason game on Friday night that included the debut of its new first down measuring system, which combines a chip in every football and the yellow first-down line that fans are accustomed to seeing on TV. Video of its use during the preseason game was accompanied by a claim from the USFL that the upstart league has “First down measurements that are more accurate than ever.”

That, however, may not be accurate. Although it undeniably looks cool on TV to see an image of the football and an image of the line to gain — reminiscent of the way replay is used in tennis — the reality is that this kind of ball tracking technology isn’t precise enough to guarantee that first down calls will be correct.

The NFL already has a chip in every football, but it uses those chips only for its Next Gen Stats tracking data, and not for officiating. That’s because the chips in the middle of every ball just aren’t accurate enough to locate where a football is to the inch. The data works fine as a good approximation of where the ball is, give or take the length of one football. But it doesn’t tell you whether a third down play just barely picked up the first down, or whether the offense should be facing fourth-and-inches.

Replay technology works so well in tennis because tennis is a sport fundamentally conducive to it: The smaller size of the ball, the spherical shape of the ball, and the ability to always have camera angles with unobstructed views of the ball and the lines on the court make tennis well suited to its replay system. Football just doesn’t work that way. It’s not always possible to tell precisely where the ball was when the ball carrier’s knee touched the ground, especially when huge men are surrounding the ball carrier and blocking any view of his knee or the ball.

So TV viewers will probably enjoy watching the USFL’s solution to first downs, but no one should expect the actual spotting of the ball to be any more accurate than it is in the NFL.

 

[TK42-RAM]

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

My first thought is that going by where the knee is down won’t worlk. There will be more reaching with the ball.

 

[Ram65]

The drama of the chains can't be replaced.

It also stated that it's not accurate with the chip in the middle etc....

 

[CGI_Ram]

If its accurate enough, use the technology. The use of chains has inaccuracies in it too.

But, the replay below looks awkward. I hope they improve that, it almost looks fake.


View: https://twitter.com/usfl/status/1512612562709274628?s=21&t=AFfOoDvITJNar1c0TyB-rg

 

[Loyal]

The drama of the chains can't be replaced.

It also stated that it's not accurate with the chip in the middle etc....

I don't think I'd replace the drama of "moving the chains" for any small gain in accuracy.

 

[ottoman89]

I just don't know how it's going to work. It's a good idea, but you'll have controversy with this as well. What happens if the technology glitches or something like that?

 

[VeteranRamFan]

What they need to do and this will not happen most likely due to cost, is place a grid of wires under the turf spaced one inch apart going the length of the field. Now place a chip in each nose of the ball. Mark the line of gain electronicky with one of those wires and have the chips link up with the grid.

This could also be used on where the ball goes out of bounds on punts and when players reach out to extend their forward progress (see Russel Wilson).

Accuracy issue solved.







until someone points out the flaw in my system on here

 

[den-the-coach]

I don't think I'd replace the drama of "moving the chains" for any small gain in accuracy.

I've never understood over the years the chains and lord knows as player, coach & fan it drove me crazy. I remember watching the highlights of Hank Stram...."You marked it good, you marked it good, you're doing a hell of a job." But I remember countless times seeing the Rams marked always a yard short and in the Championship game against the Vikings a couple of times too.

Like replay, if they have the technology embrace it, although I agree with @Elmgrovegnome the spotting of the football with the knee down will be replayed more often because of everyone reaching for the chip to be activated so to communicate.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I just don't know how it's going to work. It's a good idea, but you'll have controversy with this as well. What happens if the technology glitches or something like that?

Technology NEVER clitches!

 

[fearsomefour]

This would give Bill Billicheat a hard on.

 

[Merlin]

I've been saying this over beers for at least a decade. So it's about fuckin time someone does this. And btw it should apply to out of bounds conditions with sensors over the boundaries too.

One other usage that won't be expected is the tracking it will give them on QB pass velocity. This is an idea whose time needs to be here.

 

[Flint]

People have been complaining about the chains for years but I think it’s been pretty accurate. It’s simple and easily implemented, sure there are exceptions but compared to imbedding sensors in every field in the league and maintaining them I have no problem with it. Remember how replay was supposed to use technology to eliminate human errors, well that’s not how it worked out in practice, and I imagine this technology has drawbacks too.

 

[1maGoh]

I don't know how they're figuring out where the ball is at with the chip now, but two sensors could be used to not-exactly-triangulate the location. You would have 2 possible locations and 1 would be obviously wrong. They could go for broke and install 3 so they could actually triangulate the location. That doesn't seem hard. I'm sure that in the Bay Area you could throw a rock and hit enough hardware and software developers that could churn out the system in 6 months. And the best part is, we can refine the system without offending anyone. No one will get butt hurt about "the human element" or whatever other bullshit reason they want to keep the mistakes in the system. We'll just keep making it better every season and there will be fewer and fewer mistakes.

What about when the system glitches? What about when the refs screw up? Neither system is perfect but one of them is going to be significantly more accurate.

What about the drama? Go watch Netflix. Or maybe they could devise some ridiculous system to give people not watching football for the football an added sense of drama.

What about this weird edge case that comes up maybe once a season? I don't care.

 

[lordbannon]

My first thought is that going by where the knee is down won’t worlk. There will be more reaching with the ball.

This is pretty much it. Knowing where the ball is doesn't mean squat without knowing when the player is officially down. Forearm? Knee? Shin? Butt? Out of bounds? Reaching? You need a lot more sensors than "ball" for it to matter

 

[Flint]

This is pretty much it. Knowing where the ball is doesn't mean squat without knowing when the player is officially down. Forearm? Knee? Shin? Butt? Out of bounds? Reaching? You need a lot more sensors than "ball" for it to matter

Exactly, football has a lot of moving parts and not so well defined area. If you’re not on the hash you kinda eyeball it as to what yard mark you’re actually on. Other sports have more well defined boundaries. We can see for sure if the ball crossed the plate or the puck crossed the goal, in football the question is where the ball is when the body part hits the ground and I’m really curious how the usfl plans to figure that out.
Sure it’s possible, sensors in the ball, sensors on the player, sensors in the field, all it takes is money.
People in sports are obsessed with “getting it right”, despite the players, coaches, refs and fans all being fallible. Sometimes I’d rather replay just go away for all the headaches that go with it. Sometimes simplicity works, people have been measuring things for thousands of years with string.
If I was on a rocket ship sure I’d like a computer but if all I want to know is if the ball is ten yards from where it started maybe a string is all I need.

 

[Mackeyser]

USFL to eliminate chains, measure first downs with chip in ball and yellow line on TV

When it's time to measure for a first down in the USFL, the officials will call for a high-tech solution in place of the decidedly low-tech 10-yard chains that have been used in football for a century.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

USFL to eliminate chains, measure first downs with chip in ball and yellow line on TV​

When it’s time to measure for a first down in the USFL, the officials will call for a high-tech solution in place of the decidedly low-tech 10-yard chains that have been used in football for a century.

The USFL played a preseason game on Friday night that included the debut of its new first down measuring system, which combines a chip in every football and the yellow first-down line that fans are accustomed to seeing on TV. Video of its use during the preseason game was accompanied by a claim from the USFL that the upstart league has “First down measurements that are more accurate than ever.”

That, however, may not be accurate. Although it undeniably looks cool on TV to see an image of the football and an image of the line to gain — reminiscent of the way replay is used in tennis — the reality is that this kind of ball tracking technology isn’t precise enough to guarantee that first down calls will be correct.

The NFL already has a chip in every football, but it uses those chips only for its Next Gen Stats tracking data, and not for officiating. That’s because the chips in the middle of every ball just aren’t accurate enough to locate where a football is to the inch. The data works fine as a good approximation of where the ball is, give or take the length of one football. But it doesn’t tell you whether a third down play just barely picked up the first down, or whether the offense should be facing fourth-and-inches.

Replay technology works so well in tennis because tennis is a sport fundamentally conducive to it: The smaller size of the ball, the spherical shape of the ball, and the ability to always have camera angles with unobstructed views of the ball and the lines on the court make tennis well suited to its replay system. Football just doesn’t work that way. It’s not always possible to tell precisely where the ball was when the ball carrier’s knee touched the ground, especially when huge men are surrounding the ball carrier and blocking any view of his knee or the ball.

So TV viewers will probably enjoy watching the USFL’s solution to first downs, but no one should expect the actual spotting of the ball to be any more accurate than it is in the NFL.

I literally posted something like this recently. The chip in the ball is LOOOONG overdue

 

[CGI_Ram]

People in sports are obsessed with “getting it right”, despite the players, coaches, refs and fans all being fallible. Sometimes I’d rather replay just go away for all the headaches that go with it. Sometimes simplicity works, people have been measuring things for thousands of years with string.

This is something I’ve thought about. What was it like, when we let refs, ref? Oh the simplicity!

Because we have such HD TV now, we pick things apart.

 

[Tas]

The NFL has had chips in footballs since 2017. They mostly use them for tracking data. They don't use them for spotting because the margin of error is too large.

 

[dieterbrock]

Well, if the USFL does it first, its unlikely the NFL will adapt to it...
That said, its about friggin time. The idea of the chains and these refs eye balling shit is ludicrous to me.
Not to mention the time it will save. Its been like a free time out for teams at times, and it shouldn't be.
Lastly, I laugh at the idea that it wont be accurate. I mean sure, there's likely to be a glitch now and again, but who's saying the refs have it 100% accurate now? "Game of inches" and yet we just assume these refs who miss blatant holding calls, PI calls etc are able to be on point spotting the ball within a millimeter from 20-30 yards away?
Cmon now...