The Undefeated: Are Jared Goff and Case Keenum that good, or was coach Jeff Fisher a QB killer?

[Varg6]

Assuming this kind of success we’re having continues and it’s long term, I’d say it was worth the wait despite the agony we’ve all endured. Who knows what would’ve happened if Bradford could’ve stayed healthy but right now I’m very happy with the coaches and personnel we have. Things happen for a reason.

 

[Zero]

I think it's somewhat admirable to win as many games as he could with the carousel of Kellen Clemmons, Austin Davis, Shaun Hill, and Nick Foles.

I'm happy Case is doing well, but c'mon it's not like he was a star before starting for the Rams, when into oblivion, then re-emerged when he got out.

I think 2012 to 2013 (with Sam Bradford) was the improving team he wanted it to be. 10-12-1 in that range, really should've been 11-12. Not good but not the 6-10, 4-12 year either.

This is the guy that went 13-3 with Kerry freakin Collins...

Gonna have to disagree on this one.
The 2016 offense was ranked as the fourth-worst in the last 30 seasons.
Jared Goff had one the worst rookie seasons in history.(5th worst in Football Outsiders data base history)
Fisher had full control of personnel and five years to find a decent QB.
Nobody to blame but himself,yet he found a way to blame everybody but himself.
I find nothing "admirable" about anything he did here.

 

[dieterbrock]

This is the guy that went 13-3 with Kerry freakin Collins...

He also went 0-6 with Kerry Freakin Collins, and then 2-5 so.....
And actually it was 12-3, then went 2-11
15-17 in his Tennesee career, very Fisher like indeed

 

[Ramrasta]

Defensively and in terms of special teams, Fisher was actually a fairly good coach. It was his complete ineptitude offensively that sank him. He could neither develop a successful offensive scheme or evaluate how players would fit in his scheme. Perhaps worst of all, he failed to ever find a halfway decent OC to offset his offensive incompetence.

McVay is the total opposite. As a young, innovative, offensive minded guy, he has already proven to be exceptional in scheme development and evaluation of talent to fit his system. Most importantly, he recognized his weakness of defensive coaching and filled that void with a proven defensive mind in Wade Philips. McVay has fixed in a fraction of a season what Fisher couldn’t figure out his entire tenure with the Rams.

 

[Rmfnlt]

and the biggest one of all injuries to his starting QB.

You mean Keenum?

 

[Rmfnlt]

He did for a minute though. Drafted TA, signed FA Cook. Sammy opened up with monster games against Arizona and Atlanta. Offense was a little wide open. Really thought we were on our way. Then after 2 sub par games, Fisher scrapped it, never to be seen again.

I remember it well... he said the revamped offense would be so dynamic that it would keep Defensive Coordinators up a night (man, he was good at the hyperbole).

As soon as things bogged down, he scrapped it like you say. I remember thinking it was way too early to junk it, given all the changes they had made and where is that gonna leave them now? Went back to ultra-conservative and another sub-.500 year.

His offenses didn't keep anyone up at night... if anything, it put us fans to sleep.

 

[Loyal]

Man....I have never seen a fired HC get so dogged by the whole football world the next season after getting canned. He deserved firing, but he's gone from coaching forever, NFL...Let the guy go fish in Montana and forget him.

Go ahead and "Different Opinion" this one too...

I just think piling on a guy that gave his whole life to football, no matter how unsuccessful he was, is chickenshyte. He DID NOT purposefully try to ruin Jared Goff in my opinion (or Case Keenum, who he specifically sought out from Houston if memory serves). He was a control freak that tried to control the offensive scheme of the teams he coached, and it was his worst flaw. He's out of football now and it's like a pack mentality to tear him apart, and I won't be apart of that.

I'd rather focus on the our new guy, Sean McVay.....Our best coach since Dickie V.!

 

[Rmfnlt]

Go ahead and "Different Opinion" this one too...

I just think piling on a guy that gave his whole life to football, no matter how unsuccessful he was, is chickenshyte. He DID NOT purposefully try to ruin Jared Goff in my opinion (or Case Keenum, who he specifically sought out from Houston if memory serves). He was a control freak that tried to control the offensive scheme of the teams he coached, and it was his worst flaw. He's out of football now and it's like a pack mentality to tear him apart, and I won't be apart of that.

I'd rather focus on the our new guy, Sean McVay.....Our best coach since Dickie V.!

We know Mrs. Fisher... and we appreciate the hard work your husband put in... but, he failed us fans for five years and he must pay for that... every other former Rams head coach that failed has!

 

[Loyal]

We know Mrs. Fisher... and we appreciate the hard work your husband put in... but, he failed us fans for five years and he must pay for that... every other former Rams head coach that failed has!

No other ex-Rams coach has been tarred and feathered like Fish, nationally. Not Linehan or Spags, or EVEN Mike Martz....I called for Fisher's firing after year three, so take that blue font Mrs Fisher BS to the curb.

 

[leoram]

Allow me to offer a more balanced evaluation.

Fisher attempted to fix the OLine by acquiring Jake Long and Scott Wells. Unfortunately, their health (and that of Saffold) was unreliable. He was also not the only person that thought GRob would be a great LT. We have the benefit of hindsight (even if I preferred Matthews). Without a healthy OLine—very few offenses thrive. Consider the decline of the Cowboys offense.

Secondly, Bradford had good production when he was healthy and SJax was formidable as well under Fisher. I’m not sure many offenses are built to be productive when their starting QB is removed.

Finally, Sean McVay didn’t build this team by himself. Several pieces were already in place so can we give JF just a little credit here? If we criticize him for GRob, shouldn’t we also praise him for getting Aaron Donald when the DLine wasn’t a weakness? And, BTW, Austin on the jet sweep (a McVay staple) started its effectiveness during Gurley’s first year when Gurley started hot so at least we can credit that staff for one good wrinkle.

But these are the only apologies I have for him. When opposing defenders openly discuss the ability to diagnose plays before the snap of the ball something is wrong. Worse yet, when even I can call them from my TV set...then it’s tragically bad. Furthermore, when your entire 21 year NFL coaching career regularly features less than average offenses...there are no other explanations beyond that fact.

 

[Soul Surfer]

Kellen Clemens,
Austin Davis,
Shaun Hill,
Nick Foles.
Case.
Sam Bradford.

Have you noticed that every one of these quarterbacks upon leaving, signed with another team, and have looked much better on those new teams?

I don't think it's a coincidence.

I think that every one of those quarterbacks was mis-used in a Fisher offense, played behind a bad offensive line, didn't have any wide receivers to throw to and had bad coaching and really bad play calling.

Take Fisher out of the equation and suddenly Case Keenum is one of the hottest players in the league.
Goff looks like the number one pick in the draft.
Kellen Clemens and Nick Foles look good in relief.
Austin Davis is playing on a perennial playoff team.
Bradford is looking good and signong gazillion dollar contracts again.

Shaun Hill just got old.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Allow me to offer a more balanced evaluation.

Fisher attempted to fix the OLine by acquiring Jake Long and Scott Wells. Unfortunately, their health (and that of Saffold) was unreliable. He was also not the only person that thought GRob would be a great LT. We have the benefit of hindsight (even if I preferred Matthews). Without a healthy OLine—very few offenses thrive. Consider the decline of the Cowboys offense.

Secondly, Bradford had good production when he was healthy and SJax was formidable as well under Fisher. I’m not sure many offenses are built to be productive when their starting QB is removed.

Finally, Sean McVay didn’t build this team by himself. Several pieces were already in place so can we give JF just a little credit here? If we criticize him for GRob, shouldn’t we also praise him for getting Aaron Donald when the DLine wasn’t a weakness? And, BTW, Austin on the jet sweep (a McVay staple) started its effectiveness during Gurley’s first year when Gurley started hot so at least we can credit that staff for one good wrinkle.

But these are the only apologies I have for him. When opposing defenders openly discuss the ability to diagnose plays before the snap of the ball something is wrong. Worse yet, when even I can call them from my TV set...then it’s tragically bad. Furthermore, when your entire 21 year NFL coaching career regularly features less than average offenses...there are no other explanations beyond that fact.

I think this is fair.

I don't think anyone's saying he did not do a fair amount of things well. Not sure about this, but didn't he bring in Fassell as well?

Like you said, it was the offense... but, more importantly, what appeared to be a flat out refusal to bring in a talented offensive coaching staff. I mean, it went from mediocre to downright silly.

Started with Schottenheimer who wasn't really that bad, when compared to:
Cignetti
Boras

If there weren't more qualified candidates when he selected Cignetti and Boras, I'd understand. But there were plenty better and little to no effort was made to nail one down.

He had numerous opportunities to do exactly what McVay has done:
Admit he needs serious help on a side of the ball that he really is not expert in.

It wasted two years. Sorry if I'm still upset over that... it was, IMO, avoidable - as proven by what we are seeing this year. Granted, a few very nice tweaks were made this off-season, but it could be argued that, had Fisher hired good offensive minds, maybe those pieces would have been put in place back in 2015).

 

[Prime Time]

No other ex-Rams coach has been tarred and feathered like Fish, nationally.

Has there ever been an NFL offense that went from 32nd to possibly first in just one year? If so, I've never heard of that. That's why the criticisms have been so extreme.

As far as piling on Fisher goes, there was plenty of that after Martz, Linehan, and Spags got canned as well, in fact it still goes on to some extent. A few years down the road the Fisher lynch mob will also dissipate, as long as he doesn't get another gig as a head coach in the NFL.

 

[Angry Ram]

Gonna have to disagree on this one.
The 2016 offense was ranked as the fourth-worst in the last 30 seasons.
Jared Goff had one the worst rookie seasons in history.(5th worst in Football Outsiders data base history)
Fisher had full control of personnel and five years to find a decent QB.
Nobody to blame but himself,yet he found a way to blame everybody but himself.
I find nothing "admirable" about anything he did here.

I don't care about 2016. Everyone had a bad year and Jared was thrown into that. It was reported that he wasn't ready in minicamps through training camp. Anyone thinking that was all on Jeff Fisher is just not acknowledging that fact that maybe...just maybe...Jared had a learning curve to adjust to. We've seen this with other QBs in the past too.

Jeff Fisher had Sam Bradford, and at the time, he was a good QB for the team. He got hurt months after 2013 draft.

Not like 2014 was a stellar year to find QBs. Derek Carr and Teddy Bridgewater best of the bunch. Funny how the VIkings get a pass with Teddy Bridgewater but the Rams don't with Sam Bradford. Anyway I digress.

And I'd take Aaron Donald and Lamarcus Joyner over Derek Carr.

2015? Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota? One's overrated and even though I'd like Marcus, he just wasn't possible since the team won way more than a couple games. Besides, it would mean the team would've passed on Todd Gurley.

I don't recall him blaming everybody else, and he did plenty of things right here and I don't think he deserves all the crap he gets.

Allow me to offer a more balanced evaluation.

Fisher attempted to fix the OLine by acquiring Jake Long and Scott Wells. Unfortunately, their health (and that of Saffold) was unreliable. He was also not the only person that thought GRob would be a great LT. We have the benefit of hindsight (even if I preferred Matthews). Without a healthy OLine—very few offenses thrive. Consider the decline of the Cowboys offense.

Secondly, Bradford had good production when he was healthy and SJax was formidable as well under Fisher. I’m not sure many offenses are built to be productive when their starting QB is removed.

Finally, Sean McVay didn’t build this team by himself. Several pieces were already in place so can we give JF just a little credit here? If we criticize him for GRob, shouldn’t we also praise him for getting Aaron Donald when the DLine wasn’t a weakness? And, BTW, Austin on the jet sweep (a McVay staple) started its effectiveness during Gurley’s first year when Gurley started hot so at least we can credit that staff for one good wrinkle.

But these are the only apologies I have for him. When opposing defenders openly discuss the ability to diagnose plays before the snap of the ball something is wrong. Worse yet, when even I can call them from my TV set...then it’s tragically bad. Furthermore, when your entire 21 year NFL coaching career regularly features less than average offenses...there are no other explanations beyond that fact.

You know I've been saying this for months. For w/e reason I'm not met with friendly responses, though lol.

 

[Soul Surfer]

Let's give the old coon dog Fisher a bone;
He didn't nix the idea of drafting Gurley and Goff.

He was smart enough to re-sign Saffold.
He was smart enough to draft Pharoh Cooper, Rob Havenstein and Jamon Brown.
Malcolm Brown, Aaron Green as UDFAs.

Fisher left us some core offfensive players to be coached up.

He also looks pretty snazzy with his cap on backwards.
He would probably be following the Grateful Dead if they were still together.

 

[Angry Ram]

He also went 0-6 with Kerry Freakin Collins, and then 2-5 so.....
And actually it was 12-3, then went 2-11
15-17 in his Tennesee career, very Fisher like indeed

True, he had his flaws. I acknowledge them.

Random thought that just popped in my mind since I brought up Kerry Collins. Vince Young. If Jeff Fisher really was the QB "killer" everyone is making him out to be...why was Vince never able to play elsewhere? Especially under Andy Reid in Philly. Sometimes the player just can't adjust to the NFL (as was the case on Greg Robinson).

 

[Soul Surfer]

So we are supposed to give Fisher credit for something he "attempted" to do by signing injured offensive lineman?

If he had drafted those lineman like he should have instead of getting guys that were rejected by their old team off the scrap heap he might have had an offensive line.

Cordy Glenn was sitting there at number 33 when he took Brian Quick instead.
A huge mistake that I called at the time.

I was sitting there watching the draft and Travis Swanson was sitting right there and he decides to take Tre Mason?

Those are two SEC players that were predicted to go higher than they actually went.
Those would have been some great values and we would have had our Center and our Left Tackle.

Which shows you exactly how long we have needed a left tackle and a center, the two most important offensive lineman.

 

[RamDino]

I think the biggest problem with Jeff fisher is that his offensive lines stunk to high heaven. And he either signed or drafted them all of them! Fish always wanted to be the smartest guy in the room. I'll never forgive him for sending out all the draft picks in the RG 3 trade for the coin toss in Washington in an effort to embarrass that organization. That was bush league. And his defenses were known for punishing people... Sometimes a little after the whistle. But that was FISH. He thought he could "punch people in the mouth" and win games. He thought he could run the ball, when it was the team's failure to pass which allowed other teams to stack the box. Then he just lined up our 10 guys and thought he could push them backwards, mano to mano. I liked Fish in the beginning, but he was EXPOSED after a few years and his coaching career is over. jMHO

 

[LACHAMP46]

Vince Young approves this post....McNair is laughing in heaven shakin his head up and down....too funny....Fisher was too....too...accepting of his unqualified friends...the guys..players he brought in with Snead have talent...nothing like Salas...and...those other guys....can't even remember their names.

And don't forget that he did bring us
Brian Quick, Kenny Britt and Tavon Austin.

C'mon man....this is a Fisher thread....if fisher was killing Goff and Keenum...what do you think he did to their development?

 

[LACHAMP46]

Cordy Glenn was sitting there at number 33 when he took Brian Quick instead.
A huge mistake that I called at the time.

I noticed that too....ah well...spilled milk now....

we sure could use Cordy....Warford....Armstead....and Robinson.....ehehhhehehehehehhheh! snuck him in on ya!