The Poll to end all Polls

[bluecoconuts]

Where would the 49's be without cleaning house? What if they gave 1 more year? They may win it all after cleaning house.

Totally different circumstances.

 

[-X-]

Where would the 49's be without cleaning house? What if they gave 1 more year? They may win it all after cleaning house.

Singletary lost that team, so there's little comparison there. I get what you're saying though. The 49ers haven't allowed a 100 yard rusher since forever, so THAT has been there a while. What did Spagnuolo inherit when he took over here? Certainly nothing like that. What did they do different? Added a couple of pieces and tailored the offense to suit Alex Smith. Now look at them. The biggest gaffe, I think, has been the addition of McDaniels here. That, and the injuries of course. However, hindsight being what it is, none of us foresaw what would happen.

Well..... almost nobody.

Well, in terms of continuity, it would've made sense to bring in a West Coast guy. As for McDaniels, despite his track record with New England, I remember a Denver Broncos beat writer who told me at the time of the hiring: "This guy will get your QB killed."

<a class="postlink" href="http://interact.stltoday.com/discussions/sports/jim-thomas-live/LD1215111615/all#ixzz1h8bD7O00" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://interact.stltoday.com/discussion ... z1h8bD7O00</a>

 

[Memento]

Where would the 49's be without cleaning house? What if they gave 1 more year? They may win it all after cleaning house.

Under most circumstances, I would have to agree with you. I'll admit that Spags' record isn't the best. I know that we took a step back. I understand why a lot of people would want to clean house. There's a reason why I don't want that to happen, though. I'll elaborate:

Singletary never had the respect of his clubhouse. As much as I hate to admit it, the Forty-Whiners always had the talent to be the best in the division, but they never respected Singletary as a leader or as a coach. Linehan was cut from the same cloth, but in a way, he was worse; it would normally have been impossible to lose the respect of someone as classy and respected as Holt, but Linehan somehow managed to do it. I don't think that anyone in their respective clubhouses really respected them (Singletary as a player, yes, but never as a coach).

I have never gotten that feeling from Spags. Not once. When a head coach's players don't quit on him in a season that's completely lost, you know that he's doing something right, that these players respect him beyond measure. That's why I'm not willing to give up on him or Devaney or Demoff. They have a plan, they're sticking to what normally works, and they care about winning, which is much more than I can say for the previous regime.

I honestly don't have a problem with the DB coach, I don't really mean that he's bad or anything, I don't really know much about him really. I've just heard people say that they would like an upgrade for different coaches, and that's one I've seen before. Really I just want a new O-Line coach, and I wouldn't mind seeing a new WR coach.

Oh. I apologize for not reading your message clearly. I probably should have done that before I posted. Forgive me. I do agree with you on those points.

 

[steferfootball]

Well, in terms of continuity, it would've made sense to bring in a West Coast guy. As for McDaniels, despite his track record with New England, I remember a Denver Broncos beat writer who told me at the time of the hiring: "This guy will get your QB killed."

<a class="postlink" href="http://interact.stltoday.com/discussions/sports/jim-thomas-live/LD1215111615/all#ixzz1h8bD7O00" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://interact.stltoday.com/discussion ... z1h8bD7O00</a>

#RamsFanDepression

If we all had of stopped drooling over what could have been, we would have seen what actually was.

 

[-X-]

I mean look at Haubaugh in Baltimore.....he's a SPECIAL TEAMS COACH that became a HC......is he to be judged only on the job the punting and kicking units are doing? I think not.

I think those who use the "Look at Spags defense" reasoning is ill informed as to what HC is responsible for

You're going to have to stop telling people they're "ill-informed" about matters concerning the NFL. We're ALL ill-informed when it comes to that. You included. What you're doing there is proposing that you're more informed about these things than the other 'average football fans', and that's just simply not the case. The league is, and has been, littered with NFL head coaches who have a strong affiliation with either offense or defense. Dungy, Billick, Lovie, Tomlin, Childress, Reid, Whisenhunt, etc. All those guys were either offensive or defensive assistants (only) before they became head coaches. That's why they hire coordinators to take up the duties for either offense or defense. It's not out of the norm. (John) Harbaugh relies on his assistants on that dominant defensive football team (over the past 10 years) and he relies on Cam Cameron for the offense (who, incidentally, has been there for four years as well). Sure he delegates and gets involved, but to suggest that he somehow made a difference there? Well, let's just say that train was rolling long before he arrived.

 

[Selassie I]

Clean Fucking House ASAP.

 

[-X-]

Clean Fucking House ASAP.

lol. short and bitter. love ya man.

I'm not arguing here, but what's your plan? Do you mean get rid of the VP, GM, HC, OC, DC, STC, all assistants, the training staff (REG-GIE) and a bunch of players? Or specific dudes? Your view is fine, because it's yours and nobody can take that away from you. I'm just curious about where you sever your ties, and who you bring in as replacements. I've kinda resigned myself to the possibility that something like what you've suggested is going to happen. In the NFL, if you're not producing (despite any variables), you're not long for this world. I don't agree with that, but it's not my call.

So. Who stays and who goes now that you're wielding the boom stick?

 

[Selassie I]

I believe a Face of the Franchise needs to be hired - a president. Since we have a "silent" owner, there really is a leadership void at the top of this franchise. A president who has real authority would fill that void. I feel our team is lacking a true direction or vision , and I blame that on the lack of a true man in charge at the top of the chain of command.

This new president needs to be the person who puts the new staff together. He needs to remove any potential for dysfunction. I don't believe that could be truly accomplished without cleaning house COMPLETELY.


I also have a suspicion the john effing shaw is still pushing buttons from "behind Stan's curtain",,, and if that's still happening, I know nothing will actually get better.

I'm typing this on my phone,,,, so elaborating more is somewhat challenging at this time. My basic premise should be clear though. I realize my thoughts on this subject are in the minority here, so it's probably just as well that I don't elaborate more anyway.

 

[-X-]

I believe a Face of the Franchise needs to be hired - a president. Since we have a "silent" owner, there really is a leadership void at the top of this franchise. A president who has real authority would fill that void. I feel our team is lacking a true direction or vision , and I blame that on the lack of a true man in charge at the top of the chain of command.

This new president needs to be the person who puts the new staff together. He needs to remove any potential for dysfunction. I don't believe that could be truly accomplished without cleaning house COMPLETELY.


I also have a suspicion the john effing shaw is still pushing buttons from "behind Stan's curtain",,, and if that's still happening, I know nothing will actually get better.

I'm typing this on my phone,,,, so elaborating more is somewhat challenging at this time. My basic premise should be clear though. I realize my thoughts on this subject are in the minority here, so it's probably just as well that I don't elaborate more anyway.

Hey man. Don't worry about voicing your opinions. We go back a little while and I know you're a passionate fan. The MAIN requirement we have is respect for the Organization. Whether we feel they deserve it or not is irrelevant. We're trying to build a culture here, similar to the Rams' desire to build a culture there. If we let everyone spout off about how much this guy sucks, or that guy sucks, or how this player is shit, and that one's a bust, then factions will soon form. THEN, this house will become divided and will eventually join the ranks of other boards that measure their junk and see how far they can spit. That's not the goal here. But you know that.

You can take a shit at the PD and then come back here and we talk about whatever good we can find. And maybe diving, lambs bread and the Marleys. It's an exclusive club, and you're already in, Flynn. And I do appreciate the fact that you're respectful (and mindful) of what we're trying to achieve. Big ups there.

I just got a Samsung epic something 4G Galaxy something, and I can't type on that thing to save my life. I had better success with my Blackberry. Doesn't help that I have catchers mitts with snausages for fingers either. Oh, are you using the mobile version of this site, or Tapatalk, or just the regular site? Elaborate massively with as many words as you can use. >=)

Anyway, I can see your point about a figure head, and I agree with that 100%. Someone who meddles in the day-to-days who has an extensive football background. Particularly one with an offensive mind. That would be the best possible thing that could happen in my mind. So we're eye-level there. Yes, it kinda seems that Shaw still has Kroenke's ear. And I'm not pleased about that either. I know you're not AT ALL, if that's the case.

Lastly, I think the 'vision' is clear. We're trying to bring in guys who forsake all else for the team. That's not easy, and sometimes you have to make exceptions (me first guys) in order to field an entire roster, but I think THAT much is definitely in place. I agree that there doesn't appear to be an 'identity' though. Initially we all thought it would be smashmouth defense and ball-control offense. Still kinda seems that way, minus the offense. And I think that's the part Spags needs to resolve. Let it go, Spags. Let it go. Get an OC who can work within his limits, or get this OC the players he needs to be successful. Somehow. And then look away. Anyway, that's kinda why I want one more year. McDaniels with a couple more pieces and an entire off-season to get it down, a healthy defense, and then tee it up. If they fall flat one more time, then I see no reason to continue. Even I can't endorse 4 years of the same. Even if they had 53 guys go on IR. 4 years would be enough for me.

Thanks for listening.

-- Not Bernie. :sly:

 

[DR RAM]

I see a lot of very valid points and arguments for all sides. I am not voting on this now. I will reserve my vote for the appropriate time--end of the season, which is approaching rapidly. This team does need an identity which it hasn't forged since the GSOT. I don't think that the players we currently have can accomplish what our Head Coach wants them to do, so I believe there is a disconnect somewhere. We have been trying to fit round pegs into square holes. I don't see any signs of that disconnect fixing itself.

I'm not privy to knowing why there is a disconnect or who is responsible, but someone knows, and it will be hashed out. If no one knows, then we do need what Selassie is suggesting. John Shaw is not that guy, I truly hope that Stan Kroenke knows that.

 

[Angry Ram]

I choose to clean house.....but not everyone. I would keep the defensive coordinator and Offensive coordinators. Its been reported that this is the direction that Stan may take.

Here is my reasoning;

All circumstances aside......A Spags coached team has been one the most penalized and undisciplined team in the past 3 years.

All circumstances aside.....A Spags coach team fails to adjust , in a timely manner, to adversities. Poor halftime, in game, and off season adjustments. Regardless on the injuries, this team IN THREE YEARS has failed to find a starting WR (until the Lloyd pick up). They were also slow to address a backup RB.

Believe me I see this team fight for their coach and thats HUGE....but their fight is in consistant and highly undiscipline.



BillyD, I like him and think he has made a solid effort to place a winning team on the field. I believe he made a mistake allowing Spags to have the power to fully dictate the 53 man roster......especially on the offensive side of the ball. I would say retain him but with AJ Smith on the herizon......I think he too has to go. If AJ Smith is retained in SD....then I would keep BillyD.



I know Spags hasn't had a "normal" off season, but he has still failed to develop players, discipline the team from mental mistakes, and adjust to the circumstances.

Its too many PROVEN HC out there and we need to grab one. Keep the coordinators and allow the team to be under the same system.

Whoa, now...hold up.

Chris Long, James Laurinaitis, Darian Stewart, Bradley Fletcher, Chombers, Josh Hull (ST guy). Sims and Scott are good rotational guys. Plus what about Gordy, Marquis Johnson? He's even got some production from Ah You. And Robert Quinn is developing nicely for a 20 year old rookie that missed his last year in college.

We may disagree on Spags future here, but you can't deny the progress he has made w/ the defensive players. Offensively, yeah there needs to be major changes. Whether it's coaches or new players (Kalil, Blackmon).

I should have been more specific.....

I'm not speaking on 1st or 2nd round picks that SHOULD be ready to play in the NFL pretty quickly. I'm speaking on 4th-7th round guys that has been developed into starters or solid rotational guys.

These are the guys with raw talent that needs to be molded into players.
I'll give you Gordy, Stewart, and Fletcher....but thats really it in terms of developmental players. The rest are guys who wouldnt make most NFL rosters (Ah You, Chamberlin, and so forth)

But for the most part I am VERY IMPRESSIVED with what he done with the defense. A defense with not the most talent and all the injuries shouldnt be able to compete the way they have. Their only issue is consistency.

But he is a HC, not an DC.....so I refuse to just look at the defense for his evaluation. I mean look at Haubaugh in Baltimore.....he's a SPECIAL TEAMS COACH that became a HC......is he to be judged only on the job the punting and kicking units are doing? I think not.

I think those who use the "Look at Spags defense" reasoning is ill informed as to what HC is responsible for

Lose/lose for Spags huh?

He can't develop players, but the guys I listed have developed even the early round pick guys. You even acknowledge as such, but those don't count??

You don't know if guys would make it on other NFL rosters. Chombers def. would. If anything as a ST guy.

 

[Yamahopper]

not voting, I don't like this but some very valid points on both sides.
\But I was very pro Spags.

Then when the Rams had that half a dozen play cluster freak from the 1 a couple weeks ago...you know the one where Jax had to scream at the sideline to get the ball then he scored. Was Jax the only one thinking right? Anything that happens is on the HC, good or bad.

That made me think.

So I'm on the fence now.

 

[Young Ram]

I voted for keeping everyone, EXCEPT the O-line coach and maybe the WR coach. The O-line hasn't performed to its expectations and there is so much money tied up to it. I know injuries have plagued us this year but I think it is time to replace Loney.

I believe he emphasizes TOO much on technique instead of just letting the guys play football and block that people in front of them.

As for Cromwell I think he is too much of a west coast type of receiving coach and I would rather have a former WR to coach the player instead of a former DB.

 

[-X-]

As for Cromwell I think he is too much of a west coast type of receiving coach and I would rather have a former WR to coach the player instead of a former DB.

Yeah, I never really understood that. Something about it just doesn't seem right. Especially when you consider his VERY costly 'drop' when he was a L.A. Ram. Some of the people here know what that means. But yeah, someone who has been a receiver at some point would seem to be a logical choice. Everybody wants Bruce to handle that job, but it never sounded like he had much interest in that.

 

[Selassie I]

I believe a Face of the Franchise needs to be hired - a president. Since we have a "silent" owner, there really is a leadership void at the top of this franchise. A president who has real authority would fill that void. I feel our team is lacking a true direction or vision , and I blame that on the lack of a true man in charge at the top of the chain of command.

This new president needs to be the person who puts the new staff together. He needs to remove any potential for dysfunction. I don't believe that could be truly accomplished without cleaning house COMPLETELY.


I also have a suspicion the john effing shaw is still pushing buttons from "behind Stan's curtain",,, and if that's still happening, I know nothing will actually get better.

I'm typing this on my phone,,,, so elaborating more is somewhat challenging at this time. My basic premise should be clear though. I realize my thoughts on this subject are in the minority here, so it's probably just as well that I don't elaborate more anyway.

Hey man. Don't worry about voicing your opinions. We go back a little while and I know you're a passionate fan. The MAIN requirement we have is respect for the Organization. Whether we feel they deserve it or not is irrelevant. We're trying to build a culture here, similar to the Rams' desire to build a culture there. If we let everyone spout off about how much this guy sucks, or that guy sucks, or how this player is shit, and that one's a bust, then factions will soon form. THEN, this house will become divided and will eventually join the ranks of other boards that measure their junk and see how far they can spit. That's not the goal here. But you know that.

You can take a shit at the PD and then come back here and we talk about whatever good we can find. And maybe diving, lambs bread and the Marleys. It's an exclusive club, and you're already in, Flynn. And I do appreciate the fact that you're respectful (and mindful) of what we're trying to achieve. Big ups there.

I just got a Samsung epic something 4G Galaxy something, and I can't type on that thing to save my life. I had better success with my Blackberry. Doesn't help that I have catchers mitts with snausages for fingers either. Oh, are you using the mobile version of this site, or Tapatalk, or just the regular site? Elaborate massively with as many words as you can use. >=)

Anyway, I can see your point about a figure head, and I agree with that 100%. Someone who meddles in the day-to-days who has an extensive football background. Particularly one with an offensive mind. That would be the best possible thing that could happen in my mind. So we're eye-level there. Yes, it kinda seems that Shaw still has Kroenke's ear. And I'm not pleased about that either. I know you're not AT ALL, if that's the case.

Lastly, I think the 'vision' is clear. We're trying to bring in guys who forsake all else for the team. That's not easy, and sometimes you have to make exceptions (me first guys) in order to field an entire roster, but I think THAT much is definitely in place. I agree that there doesn't appear to be an 'identity' though. Initially we all thought it would be smashmouth defense and ball-control offense. Still kinda seems that way, minus the offense. And I think that's the part Spags needs to resolve. Let it go, Spags. Let it go. Get an OC who can work within his limits, or get this OC the players he needs to be successful. Somehow. And then look away. Anyway, that's kinda why I want one more year. McDaniels with a couple more pieces and an entire off-season to get it down, a healthy defense, and then tee it up. If they fall flat one more time, then I see no reason to continue. Even I can't endorse 4 years of the same. Even if they had 53 guys go on IR. 4 years would be enough for me.

Thanks for listening.

-- Not Bernie. :sly:

Right On

 

[RamsSince1969]

Good responses and good thoughts guys. This is just a frustrating mess of a season. Hey, the Colts won again! Is the #1 pick going to fall in our laps?