Starting to think we need to make a move or do something about our DE situation if we want a chance of repeating

[Corbin]

Indulge me, so watch this clip before reading or commenting if you would.


View: https://youtu.be/V3IGrMtdWRQ

Notice how Floyd and Miller criss cross in the backfield and Donald comes up the middle and ends the game.

Question: Do you remember when we didn't have another end in the years past to contain the ball and take advantage of having Donald push up the middle and devastate offenses?

I have a vote of no confidence with Hollins and Lewis as our guys on the edge to limit and keep offenses in the 'bubble of contain' .

Lewis would more likely have been a 1st round pick if he didn't have his awful and constant health issues.

Hollins is a great rotation and even temp starter but I don't see him as a difference maker like Floyd or Miller to maintain this defense and their dominance.

I was praying with our 3rd or 4th rounder Sam Williams DE from Ol Miss who the Cowboys took, would fall to us with his issues and we'd have the leadership/mentorship to take advantage of his skills and to keep him under control.

IMO we are going to have to make a trade for a consistent DE when management realizes this dual of players isn't able to get the job done and to compensate for this they are more than likely going to have to bring an extra blitzer ( Wagner or Jones) from that side.

Am I the only one that has a concern with the opposite side of Floyd and being able to produce consistently to a certain point? (obviously not the same as Von)

 

[jjab360]

Miller was obviously great for us last year nut we don't need to look any further than the 2020 season for a reason not to panic at OLB.

No.1 defense in the league in both yards and points without talent comparable to what we have on the roster right now opposite Floyd. And that team didn't have anything close to Bobby Wagner holding it down at ILB.

Next year's team is going to have a less explosive pass rush but I predict will be more stable overall in Morris' second year as DC and with by far the best ILB McVay has had so far as a HC.

The key is going to be figuring out whatever kind of magic Staley had going for him in 2020 that somehow made that defense better than the 2021 version with less talent overall.

 

[Kupped]

Miller was obviously great for us last year nut we don't need to look any further than the 2020 season for a reason not to panic at OLB.

No.1 defense in the league in both yards and points without talent comparable to what we have on the roster right now opposite Floyd. And that team didn't have anything close to Bobby Wagner holding it down at ILB.

Next year's team is going to have a less explosive pass rush but I predict will be more stable overall in Morris' second year as DC and with by far the best ILB McVay has had so far as a HC.

The key is going to be figuring out whatever kind of magic Staley had going for him in 2020 that somehow made that defense better than the 2021 version with less talent overall.

I get the big picture and agree that there’s no need to panic, but it’s fair to question if what they have on the roster will be enough.
In 20, the also had Ebukam & Fox. Not irreplaceable… and I think Hollins can be at least as good as Ebukam.
They won’t be able to generate the same rush with only 4.. so we’ll see more blitzing. Better hope the secondary is improved.

 

[Merlin]

Am I the only one that has a concern with the opposite side of Floyd and being able to produce consistently to a certain point? (obviously not the same as Von)

No I'm with you there. Dropoff on the blindside rush is gonna suck.

But I will say that if they can improve significantly in the secondary and vs the run then the rush becomes less crucial. For last year's defense we had to have that rush to win it all. But if they are a top run stuffing unit plus good in coverage they can still field a good defense. At least good enough to pair with what should be improved offense. That's my hope.

 

[kurtfaulk]

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Let's not forget that Morris may start sending either Wagner or Jones to rush the qb more often.

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[MachS]

Starting to question? Its obviously our biggest hole on the entire roster and something we should be absolutely concerned with. The starter opposite of Floyd and our depth at edge is a huge question mark.

 

[RamFan503]

Its obviously our biggest hole on the entire roster and something we should be absolutely concerned with.

I don't know that it's obvious until we see what these young guys can do with Wagz and Jones manning the middle. If it's a serious need, I think we'll address it. If not, the staff likes what we have vs what's available. It could very well be a strength. Or of course you could be right.

It would be great if edge is handled and acquited well by our young guys already on the roster. I think that would be ideal. Time will tell.

 

[ReekofRams]

If Miller had not became available we wouldn’t have traded for him, thus we would’ve been playing with the team we had. I don’t see anyone like Miller becoming available this year, or anyone who would actually be that big of an improvement to what we already have, but crazier things have happened.

Last year was an aberration as far as getting mid season help between Miller and OBJ, so I wouldn’t plan on that again this year. So best be satisfied with what we have, and if by some miracle we get some help we can really celebrate.

 

[Ram65]

The Great Unknown is the Rams 2022 blindside rush. It's just as much about pressure as it is about sacks. The pressures were lacking until Miller really got going. The sack numbers weren't bad but, the pressures were inconsistent. Hollins, TLew, and Garrett are still question marks. They might be able to get enough pressure with the help of LBers Bwags and Jones. We just don't know but, we can be hopefull.


This is why I wanted the Rams to sign Clowney to pair with AD. This year he wasn't in the top 10 run rate win but, usually is very good against the run. They would be a great one-two punch with Floyd pressuring the other Edge and Gaines getting the big push up the middle......AD with a 26% and Clowney with a 24% win rate!!!


Other top 10 lists are in the link.

2021 NFL pass-rushing, run-stopping, blocking leaderboard: Win rate rankings

ESPN Analytics created revolutionary new metrics to measure performance in both the run and pass game. Here are the leaders for the 2021 season.

www.espn.com

Top 10 DT Pass Rush Win Rate​

Top 10 DE/OLB Pass Rush Win Rate​

 

[dang]

If Miller had not became available we wouldn’t have traded for him, thus we would’ve been playing with the team we had. I don’t see anyone like Miller becoming available this year, or anyone who would actually be that big of an improvement to what we already have, but crazier things have happened.

Last year was an aberration as far as getting mid season help between Miller and OBJ, so I wouldn’t plan on that again this year. So best be satisfied with what we have, and if by some miracle we get some help we can really celebrate.

Dont forget Michel and Weddle as well. The LA Rams tapped into something that was very effective snd I believe they want some semblance of that option this year.

 

[Flint]

If Miller had not became available we wouldn’t have traded for him, thus we would’ve been playing with the team we had. I don’t see anyone like Miller becoming available this year, or anyone who would actually be that big of an improvement to what we already have, but crazier things have happened.

Last year was an aberration as far as getting mid season help between Miller and OBJ, so I wouldn’t plan on that again this year. So best be satisfied with what we have, and if by some miracle we get some help we can really celebrate.

We can’t expect to find guys the quality of OBJ or Miller but on the other hand both those guys were former great players who hadn’t been especially productive. I don’t know if it was mayfield or injuries but Obj wasn’t the same guy in Cleveland as he was earlier. It had been a while since Von was mvp of the SB, age and injuries were catching up to him. Could he dominate anymore?
This years results were exceptional but this is what Snead does, how bout CJ Anderson, Aqib, Weddle? Les has probably got some ideas just like every other year. Maybe this year one of the younger guys will show up.

 

[MachS]

I don't know that it's obvious until we see what these young guys can do with Wagz and Jones manning the middle. If it's a serious need, I think we'll address it. If not, the staff likes what we have vs what's available. It could very well be a strength. Or of course you could be right.

It would be great if edge is handled and acquited well by our young guys already on the roster. I think that would be ideal. Time will tell.

Yea I mean sure Daniel Hardy could end up being Michael Strahan. But the probability of him or Garrett becoming legit starters in the NFL is extremely low. If T Lewis was guaranteed to be healthy we'd all feel better but history tells us he will miss a chunk of games this year. I think Justin Hollins is an average-to-good type player who could end up being decent for us. But there will be times when Floyd and Hollins both will be off the field. And that means we will have Garrett and Lewis on the field at edge?

For an average team or below average team that might work. But we're talking about competing for a super bowl and we'll likely have to beat QBs like Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, Wilson, or Herbert. We wont be able to do that with guys like Hollins, Lewis and Garrett playing significant snaps this year IMO. I mean look back at how much Von Miller changed this pass rush and defense overall... especially in the playoffs. We don't win the SB without Von. IDK I think a lot of people are significantly overvaluing our edge talent and I will be very surprised if we don't make a trade before the deadline.

The only wrinkle I see given we have both Wagz and Jones at ILB, is that on known passing downs we allow Jones to rush from the edge or in the a-gap. He's a great blitzer and it makes sense for us to use him that way given our weak edge situation. We'll have to wait and see how Raheem uses the guys, but I think majority of this forum would agree with Corbin and say our edge talent is not ideal right now and something valid to be concerned about.

 

[CGI_Ram]

Not many would have predicted Miller and OBJ would have been available last year.

Lets see where we are at as a team at the trade deadline. Someone might be available to fill a need.

Chris Garrett is a big unknown.

 

[kurtfaulk]

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I'll start worrying if the team shows me I need to worry.

Until then, in Snead and Mcvay I trust.

.

 

[fanotodd]

For starters, ‘One of the biggest trades in NFL history’ is a bit overblown. The author apparently loves him some Lamar.

Realistically, is Jackson really that good of a QB? He’s just a glorified runningback. Trying to become a free agent in 2025 is very risky. Between now and then he could get an injury or just start to show signs of decline, lowering his value as a running QB.

Personally I think they could do better in the long run by developing Huntley.

We can’t expect to find guys the quality of OBJ or Miller but on the other hand both those guys were former great players who hadn’t been especially productive. I don’t know if it was mayfield or injuries but Obj wasn’t the same guy in Cleveland as he was earlier. It had been a while since Von was mvp of the SB, age and injuries were catching up to him. Could he dominate anymore?
This years results were exceptional but this is what Snead does, how bout CJ Anderson, Aqib, Weddle? Les has probably got some ideas just like every other year. Maybe this year one of the younger guys will show up.

The key to getting those guys was getting them late in the season. We saw in Weddle what he did vs playing a full season 2 years ago.

Great players sniffing a title who only need to play a few games to tune up is a winning combination.

We’re gonna see how much gas in the tank Wagner has left. I don’t want him flaming out early, only to spend his time in and out of the training room down the stretch. The good news is that McVay has no problem resting his vets instead of practicing them all week. That strategy is gonna be as important as any game day plan over the long haul. These guys aren’t robots. They just finished the longest championship season in NFL history and are STILL banged up.

 

[PARAM]

In a way, I wish the Rams never aquired Miller. He was our savior. We don't win it all without him. And that will be confirmed if history holds.....there hasn't been a repeat Champion since 2004. It will be so easy to say, "see we should have given him a boatload of cash and Sofi stadium to return". I think that's a load of crappola. Would I have liked VM on the 2022 Rams? Absolutely. Can we win a Championship without him or some other vet OLB? Absolutely.

The Rams were 7-1 without VM. They had 25 sacks, 35 TFL, 46 QBH, 32 PD and 12 takeaways. They allowed 103 rushing yards per game, 264 passing yards per game, 20.1 PPG. There wasn't anything wrong with the Rams defense.
With VM the Rams were 5-4. They had 25 sacks, 49 TFL, 47 QBH, 33 PD and 9 takeaways. They allowed 103 rushing yards per game, 221 passing yards per game, 19.6 PPG.
The numbers are not that different with or without VM with the exception of TFL, having 1 more per game and passing yards per game. But truth be told, sacks, QBH, PD and takeaways were all lower (per game) with him than without him. IMHO, they got him for 1 reason. The postseason.

The idea that we have to have a "Von Miller - type, veteran OLB" opposite Leonard Floyd is a fallacy. Created by an exaggeration of his impact in the regular season. His impact in the postseason was HUGE. Who's to say Hollins or TLew or Garrett can't develop into a quality OLB to give us everything VM did, sans the leadership? Our offense is just going to have to carry us a little more in 2022.

 

[majrleaged]

There is more than one way to win a SB. The Rams don't sign Robinson then trade Woods if they sign VM. They then got Wagner and it is hard to say whether they would have signed him or not if they had VM. Also I think our DBs in total are better than last year.

Robinson, Wagner, stronger DB room and don't forget a healthy Akers. The Rams to me could be a better team than last year. I agree with PARAM, Von was rejuvenated playing along side AD and we will see a drop off in his play with the bills. Probably would have seen it with the Rams.

Oh this is more of a side bar, but I keep reading we will need to blitz without VM. Need I point out, that even with that shitty Oline the Bengles had, the Rams needed to start to rush 5 to get to the QB.

 

[Kupped]

In a way, I wish the Rams never aquired Miller. He was our savior. We don't win it all without him. And that will be confirmed if history holds.....there hasn't been a repeat Champion since 2004. It will be so easy to say, "see we should have given him a boatload of cash and Sofi stadium to return". I think that's a load of crappola. Would I have liked VM on the 2022 Rams? Absolutely. Can we win a Championship without him or some other vet OLB? Absolutely.

The Rams were 7-1 without VM. They had 25 sacks, 35 TFL, 46 QBH, 32 PD and 12 takeaways. They allowed 103 rushing yards per game, 264 passing yards per game, 20.1 PPG. There wasn't anything wrong with the Rams defense.
With VM the Rams were 5-4. They had 25 sacks, 49 TFL, 47 QBH, 33 PD and 9 takeaways. They allowed 103 rushing yards per game, 221 passing yards per game, 19.6 PPG.
The numbers are not that different with or without VM with the exception of TFL, having 1 more per game and passing yards per game. But truth be told, sacks, QBH, PD and takeaways were all lower (per game) with him than without him. IMHO, they got him for 1 reason. The postseason.

The idea that we have to have a "Von Miller - type, veteran OLB" opposite Leonard Floyd is a fallacy. Created by an exaggeration of his impact in the regular season. His impact in the postseason was HUGE. Who's to say Hollins or TLew or Garrett can't develop into a quality OLB to give us everything VM did, sans the leadership? Our offense is just going to have to carry us a little more in 2022.

I don't think the Rams win last year without Miller.
This year? Different team. Stronger ILB and secondary play could make up for the loss.

Wagner is a good blitzer and Jones is too. But that means your blitzing, which puts more stress on a secondary.

 

[PARAM]

I don't think the Rams win last year without Miller.

That's easy to say and impossible to dispute definitively. Like saying, "without OBJ we don't win it all".

 

[Kupped]

That's easy to say and impossible to dispute definitively. Like saying, "without OBJ we don't win it all".

Or, "without Cooper Kupp we don't win it all."

Miller produced at a very, very high level in the playoffs. He got his own numbers and allowed the Rams to consistently rush 4 players and still generate plenty of heat.

He had 2 sacks and 3 QB hits in the SB.. he was a force.

It's much easier to envision them *not* winning the SB without him last year than winning it.