Ramsey traded to Miami for ‘23 3rd rd pick(#77 overall) and TE Hunter Long

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PhillyRam

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Totally different scenario, Hill was entering the last year of his deal and was going to be signed to an extension which the Chiefs felt they couldnt afford.
That's not the case at all with Ramsey. They signed him to a deal, he's honoring his end, and now due to accounting, they possibly want to ship him out? Not the Tyreek sitch at all, not even close
Well the Rams feel they can't afford the $54M of cap space Ramsey will be eating up over the next 2 yrs.

So not sure how you can say it's different. In fact Hill's new contract would likely have been more cap friendly for the first two yrs of that deal. Ramsey's isn't cap friendly.
 

PhillyRam

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Except the Chiefs also picked up Ju Ju to replace Hill. It's not like they just left the spot empty for a nobody to take over. Also, their offense is stacked. Our D has some stars, but not so much on the back end and how versatile Ramsey is in Morris's system, it leaves a bigger gap in talent with Ramsey gone than it was for Hill to be replaced with Ju Ju.
Exactly...got a cheap vet FA on a prove it deal. Worked out.

With the extra cap room you don't think they can add a solid vet CB in FA that might only carry a $6-8M cap hit?
 

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Exactly...got a cheap vet FA on a prove it deal. Worked out.

With the extra cap room you don't think they can add a solid vet CB in FA that might only carry a $6-8M cap hit?
Vet cb with a small cap hit? Yes. Vet cb that could take the place of Ramsey and has the smarts and talent to plug into Raheems STAR role and succeed? No.
 

PhillyRam

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Vet cb with a small cap hit? Yes. Vet cb that could take the place of Ramsey and has the smarts and talent to plug into Raheems STAR role and succeed? No.
Did KC have a Jalen Ramsey type? Did the Eagles? You don't need a Ramsey to get to the SB.

The Eagles had a vet CB on a prove it deal on Bradbury and Slay is overrated and rumors are he may he on the trading block.

Rules don't favor CBs. We saw that in last yrs SB where Ramsey got raped on a TD and didn't get a call.

What you normally do need is a very good to great OL. KC & Philly had arguably the two best OLs in the league. That is what mattered. That and a quality QB.

We have the QB. He needs a good OL more than most QBs do.... that's where the focus needs to be and use some resources on D as well.

With moving Ramsey you have a lot more resources to upgrade multiple areas. W/ Ramsey you are more limited and likely can only make a few incremental improvements.
 

El Chapo Jr

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You always end up paying in the end... and what are you going to do? Push more money to next yrs cap, where you are already over the projected 24' cap? He Doesn't have a lot of yrs left on his current contract to push money to. Then it comes down to will he agree to a cap friendly extension?

And when I say saving $33M of cap room over the next 2 yrs that's if they trade him and what they save. If he stays, its more like $54M in actually cap space he eats up. And add in another $23M in his last yr in 26'.

So how do you restructure that to save cap room with out a new deal altogether? Would he even be open to that?

Its absolutely more important to set up Stafford and the offense to be a top 5 offense again by adding a few durable vets and maybe a high end rookie to the OL. Maybe add a dynamic TE and or RB.

It's a great CB FA class and good draft class. Go get his replacement there where it's much easier to structure a new deal to be cap friendly for 2 yrs until Stafford or Donald are gone with a low cap hit. And add a CB in the draft as well. Could have a deeper secondary by moving him.

So again this is not about how good Ramsey is. It's about spreading his money over several more important positions & units, while also getting back resources in the form of draft capital to be used to maybe find some future cornerstone players.

They can't rely on Donald, Ramsey, Kupp, and Stafford forever.
Problem the Rams are stuck in is we don't have time on our side to let rookies develop nor compete with teams overpaying for free agents. If we got rid of Ramsey, we know these agents will know we are desperate for DBs and do their best (which is their job) to get the most money they can out of us. Plus players, no matter what they say, always go for the money. The trio of Donald, Kupp and Stafford would essentially end up losing at minimum a year or more (which is a lot in old vets) hoping we get back into championship mode. By that time, we'd be blowing it up again most likely when AD retires, Kupp is even older, and Stafford is even closer to or ready to retire as well.
 
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El Chapo Jr

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Did KC have a Jalen Ramsey type? Did the Eagles? You don't need a Ramsey to get to the SB.

The Eagles had a vet CB on a prove it deal on Bradbury and Slay is overrated and rumors are he may he on the trading block.

Rules don't favor CBs. We saw that in last yrs SB where Ramsey got raped on a TD and didn't get a call.

What you normally do need is a very good to great OL. KC & Philly had arguably the two best OLs in the league. That is what mattered. That and a quality QB.

We have the QB. He needs a good OL more than most QBs do.... that's where the focus needs to be and use some resources on D as well.

With moving Ramsey you have a lot more resources to upgrade multiple areas. W/ Ramsey you are more limited and likely can only make a few incremental improvements.
Stating what the last SB participants had is just recency bias in my eyes. It's been proven there are different ways to get a chip. There are so many other things that need to go right. By the way, the Eagles had the top rated secondary (which by the way, I was a big ass supporter of signing Bradbury last year). I'm not about comparing what one team does vs us cuz fuck them, they aren't the Rams. I'm about what gives us the best opportunity to win now and trading Ramsey just ain't it. There's a reason a lot other teams are interested cuz great, game changing players like that are rarely available. When we hit rock bottom due to aging players and players retiring, then we rebuild. I feel the route we go will if the trade does thru will simply keep us relevant, maybe make the playoffs, but not real contenders for a chip. I could be wrong, but I feel confident that I am not. I'll add that the only thing that will make me accept us getting rid of Ramsey is if he is indeed making absurd contract demands that cripple the shit out of us. So far hearing about it is just rumors.
 
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PhillyRam

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Stating what the last SB participants had is just recency bias in my eyes. It's been proven there are different ways to get a chip. There are so many other things that need to go right. By the way, the Eagles had the top rated secondary (which by the way, I was a big ass supporter of signing Bradbury last year). I'm not about comparing what one team does vs us cuz fuck them, they aren't the Rams. I'm about what gives us the best opportunity to win now and trading Ramsey just ain't it. There's a reason a lot other teams are interested cuz great, game changing players like that are rarely available. When we hit rock bottom due to aging players and players retiring, then we rebuild. I feel the route we go will if the trade does thru will simply keep us relevant, maybe make the playoffs, but not real contenders for a chip. I could be wrong, but I feel confident that I am not. I'll add that the only thing that will make me accept us getting rid of Ramsey is if he is indeed making absurd contract demands that cripple the shit out of us. So far hearing about it is just rumors.
This team fell apart because the OL fell apart. Not because Tansey was hurt...in fact he played every game. Fact is on today's NFK defense is de-emphasized by the rules.

If this team can't overhaul their offense and especially the line by adding some good vets with a good durability history, we could have 3 Ranseys and it wouldn't matter.
 

PhillyRam

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Problem the Rams are stuck in is we don't have time on our side to let rookies develop nor compete with teams overpaying for free agents. If we got rid of Ramsey, we know these agents will know we are desperate for DBs and do their best (which is their job) to get the most money they can out of us. Plus players, no matter what they say, always go for the money. The trio of Donald, Kupp and Stafford would essentially end up losing at minimum a year or more (which is a lot in old vets) hoping we get back into championship mode. By that time, we'd be blowing it up again most likely when AD retires, Kupp is even older, and Stafford is even closer to or ready to retire as well.
So by keeping Ramsey and having less FA money available and less picks...how do they get better?

So what's your plan?
 

El Chapo Jr

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This team fell apart because the OL fell apart. Not because Tansey was hurt...in fact he played every game. Fact is on today's NFK defense is de-emphasized by the rules.

If this team can't overhaul their offense and especially the line by adding some good vets with a good durability history, we could have 3 Ranseys and it wouldn't matter.
We aren't adding any great o-linemen in FA, maybe solid, but we can do that without getting rid of Ramsey. We can also add another one in the draft with our 2nd round pick. Also, I can't imagine we'll have to crazy amount of injuries we had last year.
 

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So by keeping Ramsey and having less FA money available and less picks...how do they get better?

So what's your plan?
I would restructure Ramsey to lower his cap hit, trade Van Jefferson, try to trade Brian Allen or cut him, trade back in the 2nd round once or twice but not out of the 2nd for more picks. Jefferson I don't mind trading because I doubt we resign him and he's nothing special just solid (plus we should be putting Tutu to use since we need speed on the field and so I can stop bitching about Creed lol), Allen just isn't reliable. Also in FA, I would be shrewd and sign players who need prove it contracts such as John Johnson (just using him as an example).
 

PhillyRam

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We aren't adding any great o-linemen in FA, maybe solid, but we can do that without getting rid of Ramsey. We can also add another one in the draft with our 2nd round pick. Also, I can't imagine we'll have to crazy amount of injuries we had last year.
Problem is even the young guys they wanted to see plsy on the OL got hurt. Not sure they want to into this season relying on the same group.

So now you only have 2 top 100 picks. Very limited cap room, and you need to still add CBs & OL at a minimum to just be competitive next yr.

My plan is to clear up $33M of cap room over the next 2 yrs by trading Ramsey. It then allows you to restructure Kupps deal, by converting salary and roster bonus into bonus that can be prorated over the last 4 yrs of his deal...opening up another $10M this yr. You can do that because you now opened up a lot of cap room in 24' with the trade. Add in Floyd's $ Wagners post June 1st designation, they got from -14.6M in cap room to +25M in cap room.

Then Ramsey nets you a 1 & 3 in a trade.

So the 2 approaches are essentially...

Trading Ramsey and then using approx $25M of cap room and 4 top 100 picks to solidify the OL & secondary, retain Gaines, draft ir sign an edge, and add a playmaking TE and and maybe a big play RB.

As apposed to keeping Ramsey, and utilizing maybe $10M of cap room & 2 top 100 picks to attempt to solidify the OL & secondary and that's about it.
 
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PhillyRam

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I would restructure Ramsey to lower his cap hit, trade Van Jefferson, try to trade Brian Allen or cut him, trade back in the 2nd round once or twice but not out of the 2nd for more picks. Jefferson I don't mind trading because I doubt we resign him and he's nothing special just solid (plus we should be putting Tutu to use since we need speed on the field and so I can stop bitching about Creed lol), Allen just isn't reliable. Also in FA, I would be shrewd and sign players who need prove it contracts such as John Johnson (just using him as an example).
He has 3 yrs left on his contract. Cap hits of 26M, 28M and 23M.

How do you restructure that when they are already over next yrs cap? They have no where to push money to and he doesn’t have a cheap yr or yrs to spread out any type of significant savings. At best maybe you open up 3 or 4M and you still have a huge cap issue next yr.

You can trade Jefferson, but where are you getting the resources to replace him while still fixing the OL, rebuilding a secondary that is losing 2 CBs and 2 Safeties, finding an edge, and adding a playmaker to the offense? Plus you won't have any $$ to keep Gaines or Robinson?

Your big fix is trading a cheap WR to further lesson the playmaking depth on offense for maybe a 4th rd pick? And restructuring a contract that at best gets you 3 or 4M in cap room while further burying next yrs cap. Okay.
 

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Problem is even the young guys they wanted to see plsy on the OL got hurt. Not sure they want to into this season relying on the same group.

So now you only have 2 top 100 picks. Very limited cap room, and you need to still add CBs & OL at a minimum to just be competitive next yr.

My plan is to clear up $33M of cap room by trading Ramsey. It then allows you to restructure Kupps deal, by converting salary and roster bonus into bonus that can be prorated ocmver the last 4 yrs of his deal...opening up another $10M this yr. Add in Floyd's $ Wagners post June 1st designation, they got from -14.6M in cap room to +25M in cap room.

Then Ramsey nets you a 1 & 3 in a trade.

So the 2 approaches are essentially...

Trading Ramsey and then using approx $25M of cap room and 4 top 100 picks to solidify the OL & secondary, retain Gaines, draft ir sign an edge, and add a playmaking TE and and maybe a big play RB.

As apposed to keeping Ramsey, and utilizing maybe $10M of cap room & 2 top 100 picks to attempt to solidify the OL & secondary and that's about it.
Problem for me is Ramsey is more valuable than those picks that aren't guaranteed to be good when we know he's a great player. There are ways to kick the can down the road so we keep him but I'll say it again. If Ramsey is being absurd in what he wants, then at that point, yeah we don't have much of a choice. I hope the Rams do everything they reasonably can for that not to happen since Ramsey's loss is being severely underestimated.
 

El Chapo Jr

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He has 3 yrs left on his contract. Cap hits of 26M, 28M and 23M.

How do you restructure that when they are already over next yrs cap? They have no where to push money to and he doesn’t have a cheap yr or yrs to spread out any type of significant savings. At best maybe you open up 3 or 4M and you still have a huge cap issue next yr.

You can trade Jefferson, but where are you getting the resources to replace him while still fixing the OL, rebuilding a secondary that is losing 2 CBs and 2 Safeties, finding an edge, and adding a playmaker to the offense? Plus you won't have any $$ to keep Gaines or Robinson?

Your big fix is trading a cheap WR to further lesson the playmaking depth on offense for maybe a 4th rd pick? And restructuring a contract that at best gets you 3 or 4M in cap room while further burying next yrs cap. Okay.
I'm no cap guru, but are you telling me there's no way for the Rams to move dollars around in the cap? I know there has to be
 

PhillyRam

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Problem for me is Ramsey is more valuable than those picks that aren't guaranteed to be good when we know he's a great player. There are ways to kick the can down the road so we keep him but I'll say it again. If Ramsey is being absurd in what he wants, then at that point, yeah we don't have much of a choice. I hope the Rams do everything they reasonably can for that not to happen since Ramsey's loss is being severely underestimated.
Not as valuable as those picks and the $33M of cleared cap space for 23' & 24' that they can get by trading him.
 

El Chapo Jr

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He has 3 yrs left on his contract. Cap hits of 26M, 28M and 23M.

How do you restructure that when they are already over next yrs cap? They have no where to push money to and he doesn’t have a cheap yr or yrs to spread out any type of significant savings. At best maybe you open up 3 or 4M and you still have a huge cap issue next yr.

You can trade Jefferson, but where are you getting the resources to replace him while still fixing the OL, rebuilding a secondary that is losing 2 CBs and 2 Safeties, finding an edge, and adding a playmaker to the offense? Plus you won't have any $$ to keep Gaines or Robinson?

Your big fix is trading a cheap WR to further lesson the playmaking depth on offense for maybe a 4th rd pick? And restructuring a contract that at best gets you 3 or 4M in cap room while further burying next yrs cap. Okay.
Trading Jefferson has no real negative impact on the offense as he isn't a huge playmaker. That's laughable. We have Slow, Atwell, we can draft one as well. Stop acting like Jefferson is a game changer man.
 

PhillyRam

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I'm no cap guru, but are you telling me there's no way for the Rams to move dollars around in the cap? I know there has to be
He only has 3 yrs left on his deal. All 3 yrs are already very pricey. They are already over next yrs cap. Moving money to next yr just turns you into the Saints.

They could add void yrs then you are incurring future cap hits when he is not even on the roster. We really want to go that route?
 

PhillyRam

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Trading Jefferson has no real negative impact on the offense as he isn't a huge playmaker. That's laughable. We have Slow, Atwell, we can draft one as well. Stop acting like Jefferson is a game changer man.
Draft one? They need all the picks they can get to find OL, S, CBs, an edge, and DL.

Maybe they can find an expensive vet to trade that gets you multiple picks and fixes their cap issues?
 

El Chapo Jr

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He only has 3 yrs left on his deal. All 3 yrs are already very pricey. They are already over next yrs cap. Moving money to next yr just turns you into the Saints.

They could add void yrs then you are incurring future cap hits when he is not even on the roster. We really want to go that route?
Who says it has to be structured the way you are suggesting? Unless you are the Rams cap guy, which none of us are, you can't just present one way for them to get around the cap. The Rams have done it before and they can figure out a way to do it again. Organizations that want to keep a player always can find a way to do so. Lastly, don't get so stuck on me wanting to simply keep Ramsey at whatever cost, remember I said if his demands aren't absurd for an extension then we got to go the trade route.
 

El Chapo Jr

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Draft one? They need all the picks they can get to find OL, S, CBs, an edge, and DL.

Maybe they can find an expensive vet to trade that gets you multiple picks and fixes their cap issues?
You telling me Snead isn't trading back to pick up more picks? Jefferson is a number #3 at best. You telling me we can't draft one or even sign a cheap ass one in FA. It's very doable.