Olympics opening ceremonies
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I have loved watching the Olympics, my whole life.
Not this year. I won't watch a second of it.
ArkyRamsFan
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Same here.....although to be frank I've been done with it for a number of years now.
Really not surprised by anything they do or say at this point.
~ArkyRamsFan~
Angry Ram
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No they aren't. These same boxers competed, years ago and no one batted an eye. You know why? Cuz they both lost and weren't blasted on social that ppl latch on to.
Which the IBA is driving...and well if you read up on them and who's leading I wouldn't fully trust that.
Ill leave it at that.
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- Bo Bowen
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Its not like Khelif had been dominating as a competitive boxer either, coming in to the Olympics "she" had a marginal 9 win, 5 loss career record.
I dont know what the answer is, but I do know that looking at those 2 in the ring, 1 clearly had a physical advantage
12intheBox
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Yes, she was bigger and stronger than the other girl
But these were both born girls.
lots of athletes have physical advantages over other athletes - that’s kind of what this is about.
I don’t want trans athletes competing in women’s sports - it isn’t fair - but I also don’t like the vagina police jumping on the case when a girl is bigger and stronger than other girls. That shit is going to happen - just like it does with guys.
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- Bo Bowen
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Not exactly born a girl, he had unextended testicles at birth. They are lying about that. XY is XY. Not his fault but it is reality. Definitely not fair for him but the muscle tone is telling. I guess as this progresses in society, a third category of competition will emerge as well as a third bathroom classification. The world is big enough for all of us.
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Its not that "she's" got an advantage, it's that "she" has the testosterone level of a male and has the "XY"
"she" doesnt belong fighting females
So I dont buy the "feel sorry for her/him and let her compete" crowd, that shit is nonsense.
Clearly the testosterone level can be manipulated to be kept under the threshold, was disqualified for going over. It's not somebody missing weight, its the difference between being male or female
Jacobarch
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I stopped watching the Olympics when I found out how much money these advertising companies make, how much money is wasted by the holding countries governments, how political it has become, and none of the profits are put back into the local communities it affects. I caught a glimpse of the opening ceremony on YouTube and just laughed at the prideful ignorance portrayed by trying to call it "art". That's one good thing about freedom of choice, is I don't have to subject myself to other peoples weird ideologies.
Pride before the fall.
Pride before the fall.
12intheBox
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You seem to know more about this person than I do. What I saw was that her birth certificate says female, her passport says female, and she has lived as a female her entire life. To me, that means its fair game - not like someone who transitioned in order to gain a competitive advantage. I am not as familiar with her unextended testicles or her chromosomes - I would wonder why someone with XY would be assigned as a female at birth?
I still contend that there will be people in life who just have an advantage based on body chemistry - the same way they do height, weight, etc. It seems to me that gender assigned at birth is a pretty fair place to draw the line.
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Any human with a Y chromosome will physically and athletically dominate a human that does not posses a Y chromosome. Period.
It doesn't matter that they may have surgically cut off genitals and artificially changed their natural hormone levels to something else. Humans with Y chromosomes have bodies that were (and are) grown and developed to be physically superior to humans without Y chromosomes. BTW, humans who do not have Y chromosomes are Females. Everything on a male body develops to be different and stronger than a female body... the muscle mass, ligaments and tendons, joints, bones and bone density, and for the most part everything except for the breasts are bigger. That cannot be changed or taken away.
The growth of the body has already taken place by the time these individuals decide to be something else. That growth advantage would never have taken place without that Y chromosome... but that advantage will always remain with that human even if they artificially change their hormone levels. Hormone levels don't suddenly erase what the body has already become and they certainly don't magically even the playing field between a male and female human.
None of that is debatable scientifically, medically, or when just using basic common sense.
It doesn't matter that they may have surgically cut off genitals and artificially changed their natural hormone levels to something else. Humans with Y chromosomes have bodies that were (and are) grown and developed to be physically superior to humans without Y chromosomes. BTW, humans who do not have Y chromosomes are Females. Everything on a male body develops to be different and stronger than a female body... the muscle mass, ligaments and tendons, joints, bones and bone density, and for the most part everything except for the breasts are bigger. That cannot be changed or taken away.
The growth of the body has already taken place by the time these individuals decide to be something else. That growth advantage would never have taken place without that Y chromosome... but that advantage will always remain with that human even if they artificially change their hormone levels. Hormone levels don't suddenly erase what the body has already become and they certainly don't magically even the playing field between a male and female human.
None of that is debatable scientifically, medically, or when just using basic common sense.
12intheBox
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Agreed. Are any such athletes in the Olympics?
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That boxer has X & Y chromosomes. At least that's what I've heard and read. There does seem to be some weird shroud of secrecy surrounding it though.
12intheBox
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Yeah - I suppose like everything it depends on where we are getting our information from. All I read was female on birth certificate and on passport - that’s good enough for me
I do think trans athletes who then compete in women’s sports is bullshit and is actually harmful to the overall movement for trans people to be accepted in society at large.
But this person - whatever the actual situation is - does not seem to be trans. How to handle hermaphroditism in sports? Maybe like @Ramhusker says - they will get a new category someday - I really don’t how common that shit is.
Angry Ram
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I'm no professional endocrinologist, physiologist, or geneticist but i have studied these topics + cellular and human biology from high school through college and know a little bit.
XY on its own, yes vast majority of the time = male. No one is gonna debate that.
But there's this thing called the SRY gene which determines sex, and is found on the Y chromosome.
Here's a long form version: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK9967/#:~:text=In most cases, the female,X chromosome, half the Y.
Point is, it's not always black and white and w/ the amount of humans on this planet and breeding, there's gonna be glitches and mutations in the genome causing some XY females and XX males. Some might only have an X. You see similar thing sin the animal world except mutations usually deprive the individual of a survival mechanism and kills it off...rather than allowing that mutation to potentially be passed on.
This whole boxing thing is being bastardized just because what the headline and social says.
-They have been boxing as females their whole careers
-You can't even change genders in Algeria
-No one cared before...until
-The IBA who's president is Russian used some lab that found those "elevated levels", they are the polar opposite of the IOC who severed ties with them. I'm not sure who's more trustworthy b/w the IBA or IOC but my money is on the latter.
No one except sickos are gonna argue its OK for a male to beat up a woman, but it just doesn't appear its the case here.
Now both of these boxers are gonna take unnecessary shit for the rest of their careers now, and that's a damn shame.
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As it says... those are extremely rare cases. Basically a genetic defect.
Interestingly, it talks about the "women" with this rare defect produce way too much of the male hormones (testosterone). That would of course create an extreme unfair advantage too. Almost the same thing as being male and then deciding to make the change. So it is basically the equivalent and should not be allowed either because a "woman" with a Y chromosome isn't truly a full woman.
The chromosome check would prevent the completely unfair advantage and should be a requirement for competing in women's sports. Too bad for the extremely rare XY "women" that may be out there... life ain't fair... but sports are designed to be fair. It's a tough lesson for everyone to learn, but the sooner a person learns this the better.
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