I'm Confused

[Elmgrovegnome]

would have been offsetting penalties.

Not if the hold clearly happened first.

 

[Selassie I]

It was the definition of intentional grounding.

The ball was snapped from the far right hash mark... that shrunken head mf'er was in the direct CENTER of the pocket when he intentionally grounded the fuck outta da ball.

Paaaaaaaaalease.

 

[FaulkSF]

Not if the hold clearly happened first.

Can’t be enforced like that. They’re both live ball fouls. Late hits and taunting can be mutually enforced after live ball penalties as these are dead ball fouls. E.g. holding on offense 10 yards, then 15 yards against the defense for taunting. Would enforce live ball first, dead ball 2nd.

 

[PARAM]

really?

Looks pretty clear that he was out of the pocket to me.

yeah just watched it again... pretty clear honestly.

Look at the hash marks - he clears both of them.

its always by the hash marks - he clearly is outside of them.

The ball was on the right hash....he was 1 step, 2 at most outside the hashmarks which would be outside the pocket if the RG and RT were the size of Bones Fassel.

 

[Ellard80]

Not if the hold clearly happened first.

holding is allowed if the qb is outside the pocket.

But not sure I understand exactly what you are saying - they generally don't not call penalties because something else happened first.

 

[Ellard80]

yeah, okay it we are not using the hash its definitely closer.

Not sure 100% either way however.

 

[Ellard80]

is it where the tackle starts off? or where he is at the time of the pass?

 

[RamBall]

The ball was snapped on the hash mark, the tackle box would be 2 yards or so outside the hash, he was clearly inside the pocket. He grounded the ball earlier on that same drive and it was not called then either.

 

[dieterbrock]

Sometimes have to be careful being influenced by what the announcers are saying. (it Seems their yapping influenced the perception of the play by some of the posters in this thread).

Darnold was out of the pocket - that's why no grounding.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFWnzwmvYuU


7:17 of video if you care enough to check it.

I thought the pocket was defined by inside the hashes. Darnold was clearly outside the hash, and ball came nowhere near the LOS

 

[FaulkSF]

I thought the pocket was defined by inside the hashes. Darnold was clearly outside the hash, and ball came nowhere near the LOS
View attachment 63644

The rules speak to tackle position:

Intentional Grounding | NFL Football Operations

operations.nfl.com

Passer outside tackle position. Ball was thrown 20 feet above the receivers heads out of bounds. The ball was nowhere near the vicinity of a receiver.

 

[Ellard80]

The ball was snapped on the hash mark, the tackle box would be 2 yards or so outside the hash, he was clearly inside the pocket. He grounded the ball earlier on that same drive and it was not called then either.

Yeah I'm not sure 100% however if its where the tackles were initially or where they are at the time of the throw.

At the time of the throw he is outside the tackle - where the tackle was at the snap he may or may not have been.

Seems like it would be somewhat difficult for the official to know where exactly the tackles started off if there is much displacement.


Seems that if you are outside the tackle when you throw it and the tackle is relatively close to where a tackled would be positioned, they are going to consider the QB outside the tackle box.

 

[Selassie I]

He was in the direct CENTER of the pocket. The hashes don't determine the pocket... the tackles at the time of the snap do.

It was Grounding 1000%. Blatant.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

holding is allowed if the qb is outside the pocket.

But not sure I understand exactly what you are saying - they generally don't not call penalties because something else happened first.

If the holding happened on a DB restricting a receiver running his route, then that could be determined as the reason the QB couldn’t find an open target and caused him to get pressured and run.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Can’t be enforced like that. They’re both live ball fouls. Late hits and taunting can be mutually enforced after live ball penalties as these are dead ball fouls. E.g. holding on offense 10 yards, then 15 yards against the defense for taunting. Would enforce live ball first, dead ball 2nd.

If a defensive back hinders the receiver from running his route, then that can be determined as the reason the quarterback could not find an open target and the pass rush got there.

If that’s not the case then DBs should hold on every play until the pass rush forces the QB to throw the ball away.

 

[Ellard80]

He was in the direct CENTER of the pocket. The hashes don't determine the pocket... the tackles at the time of the snap do.

It was Grounding 1000%. Blatant.

I've watched it a handful of times pausing it and looking where he started.

It might have been grounding... but 1000% blatant?

Nah it was pretty close.

 

[Ellard80]

If a defensive back hinders the receiver from running his route, then that can be determined as the reason the quarterback could not find an open target and the pass rush got there.

If that’s not the case then DBs should hold on every play until the pass rush forces the QB to throw the ball away.

Yeah but the dude calling pass interference isn't watching the QB at the same time.

You would get two penalties called...

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Yeah but the dude calling pass interference isn't watching the QB at the same time.

You would get two penalties called...

But either way, the holding would be the first penalty and the intentional grounding wouldn’t matter.

 

[Selassie I]

I've watched it a handful of times pausing it and looking where he started.

It might have been grounding... but 1000% blatant?

Nah it was pretty close.

View: https://youtu.be/GOZ8qiHFA_E?si=78J8VpW6M_5a8v32

 

[Ellard80]

But either way, the holding would be the first penalty and the intentional grounding wouldn’t matter.

don't think so...

I can't remember anytime watching football when intentional grounding wasn't a penalty because there was pass interference.

I get what you are saying - but I've never seen it work that way.

 

[Merlin]

They are inconsistent with grounding nowadays and it irritates the shit out of me.

Another one they routinely fuck up are encroachment calls, when they blow the play dead instead of allowing the offense to take a shot.