Do NFL Prospects Really Develop That Much?
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Both. McNair was a fine player who was developed. Moreso by Hermerdinger 6 years in as his running played a great deal in any early success. Better reading defenses and accuracy came with Hermerdinger.
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- #44
But you have to say that Fisher was responsible for Hermerdinger's hiring, which indirectly credits Fish for any development that took place. If we blame Fisher for his failure with the Rams, then we have to credit him with the success in Nashville.
As for McNair himself, how was he able to become more accurate, when others fail horribly trying to do that? That's inherent ability.
McNair was able to comprehend how to change in reading defenses, another inherent ability. Coaching developed, I guess, what was already there. Maybe the better way to think of this is whether a player is capable of learning and changing when natural ability is not enough?
I give Fisher credit for what happened at both spots. The good and the bad.
As for McNair vs. others, I could go with inherent ability alone if I knew that others being compared had the exact same circumstances, time to sit, training, desire, etc.. But, that's a next to impossible measurement.
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Kupp is an outstanding slot WR.
But, while I'm sure I'm in the minority here, until I see him play outside and beat #1 & #2 CB consistently, I'd say he got drafted right about where he should have been drafted. The top of the 3rd round wasn't a bad spot for such a selection. That is, unless there were teams desperate for a slot WR who passed on him for other slot WRs earlier.
Or course, I wouldn't spend a first or second round selection on the greatest slot WR.
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- #47
Why not? Kupp isn't a pig-in-a-poke gamble anymore. I would pick him in a heartbeat in the 1st round if I knew what he would become. We are not talking about an Austin Pettis here, but one of two sure handed receivers who are almost gtd to come up with a critical catch when it matters. The best Rams duo since Torry and Isaac.
Anyone watching reruns of the draft? Its hilarious to see what was said after each pick.
O'Dell Beckham, great character. - Mel Kiper. Lol
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- #52
Who was? The Rams were wrong at #2 when they could have hd him then!
Mel and friends. Didn't catch what they said about the top 5 pucks, turned it on too late. I stopped watching after AD.
In my book Kupp was about 95% developed when he came to the NFL.
I don’t think any NFL coaching would
Have had much of an effect on his development either way.
Kupp is an outliner case though. Very few players come out as developed as
Him.
Kupp is not flashy but his overall
Game is first round talent in my book for sure.
Slot WR is critical to the Rams and lots of teams. Kupp is such a third down savant that Goff has to deliberately stop looking to Kupp every third down because it became too predictable.
I don’t think any NFL coaching would
Have had much of an effect on his development either way.
Kupp is an outliner case though. Very few players come out as developed as
Him.
Kupp is not flashy but his overall
Game is first round talent in my book for sure.
Slot WR is critical to the Rams and lots of teams. Kupp is such a third down savant that Goff has to deliberately stop looking to Kupp every third down because it became too predictable.
oldnotdead
Legend
Van Jefferson easily could become another Kupp. Like Kupp, Van is a technician who separates because of his crisp routes with a burst coming out of his breaks. His long speed is in the 4.6 range meaning most DBs are faster. But his route running and burst gets him open.
Wes Welker is an excellent example of player development. He went undrafted because he was undersized and posted only average speed. Originally signed by the Chargers he was released after one game. He spent 2004 through 2006 with the Dolphins. He was about to be cut when he was abruptly traded to the Pats and the rest is history. It was with the Pats that he got the level of coaching he needed and blossomed. He also continued in the offseason at a private training center in the midwest. There he improved his running style and went from a 4.65 to about a 4.55 which may not seem like much but that coupled with improved route running and understanding defenses is where he excelled.
Drew Brees got benched as a starter for San Diego. He deserved getting benched his play was poor. On the advice of Doug Flutie, he began to train offseason at a center in Carlsbad, CA. He told me that one of his exercises was to look at a room for 5 seconds, then have someone move one or more things. Drew would again look at the room for 3 seconds and then again back out of the room. He would then say what was moved and where it was before and after. It was one way he trained his brain and eyes to read the defenders pre-snap and to be aware of how the defense might change post-snap.
Kris Dielman a ProBowl LG started as a failed 3T on defense. They switched him during TC. His first year he was horrendous. But each year he improved and his play. By the end of his 3rd year, he was considered a rising star blocking in front of LaDanian Tomlinson. So absolutely players can make dramatic improvements, but IMO it's a matter of the player's commitment and work ethic. Kris was the player that told me playing the o-line or any NFL position was all about technique. He said less athletic players could play at a high level in the NFL if their technique is good.
I still say WR is a lower priority. This is a golden opportunity to use Everett out of the slot with Higbee in his usual spot. Two TEs in the short area on each side of the field occupying the LBs, with Kupp in the mid-range and Woods behind him going deep. Now add in Henderson in the flats, play-action, or just a power run between the tackles with the LBs out of position because of Everett and Higbee. If the center takes out the MIKE Henderson can potentially take it the distance. The problem is if the center is Blythe who struggles to pull and block on the second level then Henderson gets 5-8 yds. Go ahead and break down Blythe's second level play. IMO he misses more than he makes. If Allen can't go I hope Shelton earns the start.
Bottom line is that any WR they take will likely get limited snaps barring injury to a starter.
Wes Welker is an excellent example of player development. He went undrafted because he was undersized and posted only average speed. Originally signed by the Chargers he was released after one game. He spent 2004 through 2006 with the Dolphins. He was about to be cut when he was abruptly traded to the Pats and the rest is history. It was with the Pats that he got the level of coaching he needed and blossomed. He also continued in the offseason at a private training center in the midwest. There he improved his running style and went from a 4.65 to about a 4.55 which may not seem like much but that coupled with improved route running and understanding defenses is where he excelled.
Drew Brees got benched as a starter for San Diego. He deserved getting benched his play was poor. On the advice of Doug Flutie, he began to train offseason at a center in Carlsbad, CA. He told me that one of his exercises was to look at a room for 5 seconds, then have someone move one or more things. Drew would again look at the room for 3 seconds and then again back out of the room. He would then say what was moved and where it was before and after. It was one way he trained his brain and eyes to read the defenders pre-snap and to be aware of how the defense might change post-snap.
Kris Dielman a ProBowl LG started as a failed 3T on defense. They switched him during TC. His first year he was horrendous. But each year he improved and his play. By the end of his 3rd year, he was considered a rising star blocking in front of LaDanian Tomlinson. So absolutely players can make dramatic improvements, but IMO it's a matter of the player's commitment and work ethic. Kris was the player that told me playing the o-line or any NFL position was all about technique. He said less athletic players could play at a high level in the NFL if their technique is good.
I still say WR is a lower priority. This is a golden opportunity to use Everett out of the slot with Higbee in his usual spot. Two TEs in the short area on each side of the field occupying the LBs, with Kupp in the mid-range and Woods behind him going deep. Now add in Henderson in the flats, play-action, or just a power run between the tackles with the LBs out of position because of Everett and Higbee. If the center takes out the MIKE Henderson can potentially take it the distance. The problem is if the center is Blythe who struggles to pull and block on the second level then Henderson gets 5-8 yds. Go ahead and break down Blythe's second level play. IMO he misses more than he makes. If Allen can't go I hope Shelton earns the start.
Bottom line is that any WR they take will likely get limited snaps barring injury to a starter.
So the offensive lineman & young guys don’t suck after all ? Edwards has never plYed guard before & learned on the fly. Corbett look like he is ascending, but not with the Browns.
— Copper Kupp had 32 more receptions in 2019
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- #57
What are you talking about?
and No, Cooper Kupp has never sucked as a pro...he may have been injured and didn’t play, but that’s all.
The offensive line . Copper Kupp has always been solid, but had his best season last year.
My point is the Offensive Line should get better & wasn’t as bad as most think.
Go back to Bradford & wonder if he could have got Kupp the football. Goff could because he was well protected.
“Turbo set!”
Pro Bowler
Elmgrovegnome
Legend
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I had him as a first round talent. I never thought he'd last as long as he did.
Taking a slot receiver in round one is a scheme decision imo. And I'd be willing to bet Kupp could play outside in McVays scheme of needed.
Goff was not well protected this year. And Kupp was injured halfway through the 2018 season. I would expect his receptions to increase playing a full season the next year.
Bradford got the ball to Amendola pretty well. Other than Danny Sam had shot for Wide Receivers to throw to. And Fisher and Snead felt Amendola wasn't worth paying, brilliant.