Did anyone see this???

[OregonRamsFan]

Men really are targets nowadays. Be careful out there guys. You can lose it all on things you might consider non-sexual.
I have seen it. It seems all she needs to do is accuse you. With or without proof, it doesn’t matter. Keep the blinders on. It’s just not safe out there.

 

[I like Rams]

This is probably THE worst discussion to have over the internet. So im just gonna wait for the dick pics to come out.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

It's 2017 Elmgrove..........that "argument" has been dead for decades.

I tend to look at each situation individually and while I don't conclude innocence or guilt much of the time, sometimes I do.

It's an uncomfortable position for a woman to be in, and most don't say anything until they leave a position/company or they say nothing at all. Often out of fear of losing their job. As a guy it's very difficult to understand the embarrassment and stress, however just look at the attitudes some of you guys are displaying and how the general public is similar..........since this board is a cross section of the general public. See what I mean?

Several days ago I watched a video of Katie Couric talking about Matt Lauer in an interview. The guy asked her several questions about working with him, one was what she didn't like about working with him. Her response was that he pinched her butt a lot. The guy conducting the interview sort of giggled and if you watch her face you can see she is not happy, yet not shocked, by his response. He checked himself, but the dismissive vibe was already out there.

It's important to note that most rapes and cases or sexual harassment never get reported because women fear that they won't be believed or have their style of dress called into question ("you were asking for it") or worse. I have heard from female friends about inappropriate remarks etc they had to put up with in their lives. Generally their attitudes are "why bother" when it comes to speaking out.

I work with a woman who is now 70, and when she was younger she was very attractive. When this all started bursting on the scene we talked about it and she is happy that women are coming forward. She has had inappropriate comments and gestures directed at her over many years at work, in bars, in college, in grocery stores and everywhere else. Because of the times she grew up in she just lived with it because of the chauvinistic attitude of that era.

Keep in mind most of the times, the large majority in fact, that women speak up they are telling the truth. Just look at how many people have been accused lately and that almost all of them have admitted it. It isn't a case of guilty until proven innocent. If accusations are levied they are almost always true.

Things are changing, and it's about freaking time.

It’s a case by case basis. Neither of us were there to see how the woman dressed or acted. I wondered if she was baiting purposely because it was 4 different guys. Other than a porn shoot where does that happen.

I remember a young PSU runningback get kicked out of school for rape. Any hopes of playing in the NFL were shot. 4 years later a friend of the girl came out and said that he was baited by the girl who willingly had sex and ran straight to the cops the next day. She thought she would get rich when he hit the NFL.

I know harassment is real but this case sounds fishy.

 

[SteezyEndo]

So im just gonna wait for the dick pics to come out.

Here this will keep you entertained.

Picture of the Salton Sea from space.

 

[Mackeyser]

I realize folks have STRONG opinions on this, so I'll tread lightly.

No one's who's been accused DENIES either the allegations OR the severity.

You can rest assured that rather than lose a job or even a livelihood, those who are innocent wouldn't just roll over and take the damage to reputation and the checkbook just because of the climate.

So, yes, we do still need to retain "innocent until proven guilty".

That's still very important.

What's not being acknowledged is that it's not a matter of that because every single man has essentially ADMITTED that the allegations are true.

I don't see this as a witch hunt at all.

Rather, I see this as a pendulum that had swung nearly all the way toward patriarchy and privilege and now that it's swinging back, you can rest assured, it's going to swing nearly to the same extreme the other way.

And this is going to be the case with politics, economics, religion.

It's also why we're seeing all of these things bleed into other areas.

We can move the pendulum back to a neutral position in a mindful and purposeful manner... OR... we can allow the social, economic and political pendulums to continue to swing wildly to greater and greater extremes.

That's bad for everyone. It not only makes it hard because it seems EVERY freakin' conversation is about politics or religion or economics or social justice or whatever but every entertainment outlet (including porn...not even that will be spared) will be infiltrated by these outside influences.

No one seems to enjoy that.

But the truth still stands, as we all know from our various life experiences: We can address the problems (like, say, a leaky roof) or we can ignore it and then be upset when the ceiling falls in during a rainstorm in the middle of lovemaking.

And nothing would please me more as we're poised to win multiple Lombardis to be able to focus SOLELY on football when it's time for football.

 

[NateDawg122]

Nah, let's not go there. Criticize the post not the one who made it.

Sorry, but he basically said sexual harassment accusations from women he deems unattractive are just lies. To hell with that. Imagine if that was your daughter and the public completely dismissed her claims because "she's ugly."

 

[…..]

I I wondered if she was baiting purposely because it was 4 different guys. Other than a porn shoot where does that happen.

I know harassment is real but this case sounds fishy.

It was more than 4 guys. More like 5-6 specifically mentioned, could be more. She was in charge of thier wardrobe and they all wear tailored suits.

Nothing fishy at all, unless you wonder how 5-6 guys all managed to be monumentally stupid all at the same time.

 

[Mackeyser]

It's 2017 Elmgrove..........that "argument" has been dead for decades.

I tend to look at each situation individually and while I don't conclude innocence or guilt much of the time, sometimes I do.

It's an uncomfortable position for a woman to be in, and most don't say anything until they leave a position/company or they say nothing at all. Often out of fear of losing their job. As a guy it's very difficult to understand the embarrassment and stress, however just look at the attitudes some of you guys are displaying and how the general public is similar..........since this board is a cross section of the general public. See what I mean?

Several days ago I watched a video of Katie Couric talking about Matt Lauer in an interview. The guy asked her several questions about working with him, one was what she didn't like about working with him. Her response was that he pinched her butt a lot. The guy conducting the interview sort of giggled and if you watch her face you can see she is not happy, yet not shocked, by his response. He checked himself, but the dismissive vibe was already out there.

It's important to note that most rapes and cases or sexual harassment never get reported because women fear that they won't be believed or have their style of dress called into question ("you were asking for it") or worse. I have heard from female friends about inappropriate remarks etc they had to put up with in their lives. Generally their attitudes are "why bother" when it comes to speaking out.

I work with a woman who is now 70, and when she was younger she was very attractive. When this all started bursting on the scene we talked about it and she is happy that women are coming forward. She has had inappropriate comments and gestures directed at her over many years at work, in bars, in college, in grocery stores and everywhere else. Because of the times she grew up in she just lived with it because of the chauvinistic attitude of that era.

Keep in mind most of the times, the large majority in fact, that women speak up they are telling the truth. Just look at how many people have been accused lately and that almost all of them have admitted it. It isn't a case of guilty until proven innocent. If accusations are levied they are almost always true.

Things are changing, and it's about freaking time.

 

[Angry Ram]

Anyone here work in an office for a while? Man, the truth is, there are men & women together, sometimes spending more time together than they do with their families. After a while you get more comfortable with each other and then all hell can break loose. It's keeping the boundaries, and I did, that's the difference. You can't make a move on a woman at work. Just not a good idea. If you do, you have some serious issues. In the history of the world, sex is still the undefeated champion for ruining careers.

Yup.

The big company that ended up being a total shit hole the guys would all say which girls were hot, and the girls would say which guys were hot. We were/are less than 35 years old or so. No one really cared about it.

Currently work in a company where both the men and women talk like we're hanging out the bar. I'm the second youngest, and the youngest is a recent college grad. Female. Doesn't bother her.

Hell at my old part time gig one of the guys was stating how some of the teachers were pretty hot. And the teachers would fawn over the guy in 50 Shades of Gray they watched last weekend.

It's funny, guys are wired to be attracted to girls, and they doll it up to the max. Hair, make up, perfume, lip gloss tambien, and a man even looks at them it's possible he could be in trouble.

I think if there's no physical contact and nothing explicit said sexually (i.e., hey nice view) there really shouldn't be grounds for getting trouble. That's just MO.

 

[Mackeyser]

Yep.

I'd say nearly 50% of women accusing these men are full of bullcrap and just want the attention and money.

I heard one case where the lady willingly took her clothes off and began in consensual sex and now she's accusing him of sexual assault. Give me a freaking break. I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing a lot of these women. Maybe SOME of what they say is true, but I think they lie about way too much.

I don't want this to be piling on, but yeah... this just isn't right...at all.

Moreover, sex is only consensual until it isn't.

Here's just one example. Married couple willingly having sex. She has moisture issues as some women do, so she has to be properly lubricated and he has to go slower or it hurts. He decides that he likes how it feels and keeps going with less lubrication and starts to go harder. MUCH harder. She's really in a lot of pain and even screams for him to stop. He doesn't.

That, right there, would be a textbook example of rape...marital rape... and it STARTED as a fully consensual encounter.

It's no different than a boxing match in this respect. The minute one boxer states, "no mas", the fight is over. Roberto Duran didn't say "no mas" and then have Sugar Ray Leonard beat on him for 5 more rounds because, "he knew what he was getting in to" or "he signed up for 15 rounds and he stepped into the ring, so he just has to accept it."

Nope. Consent can be ended at ANY TIME.

Lastly, if EVERY woman who suffered legitimate (as defined by the law... I really don't like that term "legitimate rape" as if there's such a thing as illegitimate rape...) sexual harassment and/or sexual assault/rape reported it and took it to the fullest, whether the assaulter/rapist is convicted, you'd see that the actual percentage of false reports are extraordinarily small. Not only wouldn't it be 1 percent, it'd be in the hundredths of a percent... and that's on the high side...

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Maybe Shia LeBouf gif isn't the best choice here
- he has a legacy here in Austin

https://austin.com/shia-labeouf-ejected-austin-club-alleged-sexual-harassmebnt/

 

[LesBaker]

Les I’m talking about the following scenario:

• Guy and gal, in the workplace, flirting and talking. Working odd hours. Traveling together. Eating together. Changing rooms. What could go wrong, right?
• Guy gets bold. Sends out trial balloon signals. Cool. She didn’t balk. Steps a little closer to the line.
• Gal likes the attention. Feeds the beast. Dresses nice smells nice. He thinks he’s got the green light!
• He sends pics. She sends pics. (I just don’t get this new trend. So glad to be 52 and married). Maybe something happens.
• Things go sour. He’s famous. Wife or girlfriend is on to him. He gets cold feet. Pulls out of the situation.
• Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

Did he send pics? Yes. Was he stupid? Yes. Was it always unwelcome? Was it? Not always clear who the victim is. Sometimes there is no innocent player. Just vengeance played out on a public stage.

Well this isn't what seems to have happened, and frankly you are making up a remotely possible scenario and that's just not what we are looking at in most of these cases we see arising.

The point is that the pendulum of sexual harassment has swung too far.

That's your opinion, and the fact that almost all of the men accused are copping to it and apologizing seems lost on you. That's not a case of "swung too far" it's a case of assholes getting called out for the shit they did and women not being afraid as much as they have been.

Women face some real pigs.

Yeah, and we are reading about those types of pigs in the news a lot lately because women have become willing to step forward and speak up about what's happened to them in the past and present.

There is no way to fully insulate yourself from harassers.

For sure, that is correct. So you let people know what they did when they do it. We are seeing that now.

For a moment I thought we had achieved comprehension. I dunno.

From harassment?
No, unless they are tragically weak human beings.
But, depends what we are talking about.
You didn't define it.

No man, I love ya tons, but this is far from the truth. It's not a sign of a tragically weak human. That's just not a fair statement.

On the one hand it's a good thing for society to begin to hold accountable the men who treat women inappropriately and send a message to the ones who are headed in that direction. On the other hand let's hope this doesn't turn out to be like the Salem witchcraft trials where lives and reputations were ruined based only on suspicion and rumors.

Just an FYI..........this isn't based on suspicion and rumor. And it isn't a torrent of fake claims.

These are pieces of shit that have done their best to take advantage and have gotten away with it for a long time and deserve what they are getting.

I think if there's no physical contact and nothing explicit said sexually (i.e., hey nice view) there really shouldn't be grounds for getting trouble. That's just MO.

I think there is a line too. Asking a co-worker out, flirting and that kind of thing is normal human interaction. I think you have said something here that needed to be added to the conversation.

But that's not what we are seeing and reading. It's worse than that by a mile.

Grabbing tits and ass, pulling out your dick and rubbing one out in front of a woman, asking for a blow job, telling a woman she is a hot piece of ass, that she looks like a good fuck, asking what her favorite sexual positions are, texting unsolicited naked pics and videos, and all of the other shit we have seen crop up in the news is over anyone's line. Regardless of how the woman was dressed, and regardless of how much she flirted back.

A woman showing some interest in a man doesn't give him the right to do those things and it seems to me a few posters are saying they can justify why these guys did that because of that, or how she was dressed. That's crazy.

It's fucked up, it's wrong. And a lot of these actions are illegal, criminal.

 

[Mackeyser]

Yeah it's crazy Champ. Dudes are just out of their minds when it comes to pu$$y.

One of my kids went into the military and I'm talkin to her on the phone and she's got three different dudes in the barracks that won't take no for an answer. So I tell her "you gotta be firm and honest with dudes that you're not interested in" and of course she is doing just that but she's a cute thing and these guys proceed with the creeper behavior anyways.

It's hard for dudes to understand what that feels like I think. The non-stop nature of it is just nuts. In the Navy I'll still have to yoke up junior personnel for staring at even female leaders, it's part of the culture still that needs to change. I'm sure the NFL and the Navy have a lot of similarities in those ways.

After Navy boot, I went to Nuclear Field ET "A" school at the NTC Orlando where I went to boot.

While I was in boot, because my wife missed me so much (we were married at 21 and I joined at 23), she hung around the recruiting station a lot to try and understand what I was joining and what I was going through.

After a few weeks, the recruiter tried to rape my wife. He saw no punishment besides being reassigned and forced out ONLY after a few years when he'd get his 20 and thus, get his Navy pension. Yep. Attempted Rapist and still gets his Navy pension...

Wish I was kidding.

Worse, my wife wrote me a letter expecting that I would blame her and APOLOGIZING for what happened. (no way in hell I blamed her or would ever in case anyone was confused)

I sat on it a few days, seriously contemplating going UA (unauthorized absence) and killing him. He's the only person I've seriously thought of ending their lives with my own hands. I honestly wasn't sure what to do because I'd be in jail for a long time. Trust me, I thought about it.

And while the command at my end was impressed that I maintained my military bearing in the face of this and they forced the other command to take SOME sort of action, it wasn't near enough.

Fast forward to my first week of ET "A" School and they had a "sexual harassment" class.

I walked out. I stood up and formally walked out because the instructors were joking about it. Freak that. I was willing to be disciplined, but there was no way on God's Green Earth that I was gonna listen to some Navy asshole joke about sexual harassment when my wife had nearly been raped only weeks before BY my recruiter (actually, it was his loser Petty Officer partner, but...yeah).

My advisor, a newly minted CPO, when I told him about what happened with my wife, stood by me. I saw no punishment and the command was ALWAYS very supportive of my wife.

But I'll never forget a room full of my Navy shipmates, who I trusted and liked and became friends with... laughing about the very thing my own wife went through.

My wife didn't report it because, like a lot of women, she thought that it must be her fault. Freak that. *I* reported it and I'm thankful that my faith overrode my anger and hatred (I shudder at how close that call was).

If I mistakenly believe the occasional woman who falsely reports, as much as that's not okay for all the obvious reasons, I'll take that over disbelieving a woman who braves the public to report. Men will NEVER know how hard it is simply to tell a close loved one, let alone go public.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[Mackeyser]

Maybe Shia LeBouf gif isn't the best choice here
- he has a legacy here in Austin

https://austin.com/shia-labeouf-ejected-austin-club-alleged-sexual-harassmebnt/

Yeah, you're right.

I simply wanted the slow clap and I forgot about Orsen Wells until after I posted it.

Mea culpa.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Something doesn't add up to say the least. Sounds like a persecution complex that's been given a platform with today's climate.

Yeah, alot of that going around these days.

 

[Classic Rams]

Men really are targets nowadays. Be careful out there guys. You can lose it all on things you might consider non-sexual.
I have seen it. It seems all she needs to do is accuse you. With or without proof, it doesn’t matter. Keep the blinders on. It’s just not safe out there.

I don't believe this at all. If you aren't bothering them they have no reason to "target" you. I've worked with ladies all my life and sometimes the conversation gets playful but not to the point of propositioning. Even if a personal subject gets too far someone may say TMI and the subject is changed. I have a friend though that says more crass things than I ever would to his female coworkers and I've always told him to be careful. He just laughs, seems he's well liked over there too. He's not trying to pick them up, but he does get a little raunchy with his jokes.

 

[Farr Be It]

Well this isn't what seems to have happened, and frankly you are making up a remotely possible scenario and that's just not what we are looking at in most of these cases we see arising.

Wow, Les. Lots to cover here. First of all, thanks for your thoughtful responses. Secondly, a couple clarifications. I think you misread the essence of my post. My scenario was a hypothetical, yes. But by no means was it out of left field. I stand by that as the typical ensnarement scenario.

That's your opinion, and the fact that almost all of the men accused are copping to it and apologizing seems lost on you. That's not a case of "swung too far" it's a case of assholes getting called out for the crap they did and women not being afraid as much as they have been.

You state a couple times, "That is your opinion." Yes it is, and I recognize that. Please recognize, too. That your strong opinions are your OPINIONS. You act as though all facts are in evidence. Many of these guys are admitting to wrong doing. Videos and texts, etc. ARE evidence of sexual talk. NOT evidence of UNWANTED sexual talk and advances. YOU shouldn't lead with your chin on these matters. You may be right and you may not have the full story.
You heard me when I said that guys need to be respectful of women, and not do foolish things.

I think the sexual ethic today is HORRIBLE. Much of the blame goes to men. Much of the blame goes to Feminism. They want to be treated like guys, be promiscuous like guys. Be aggressors like guys. Take their RU486 and wooo! girls night out! Can't have it both ways. The line is soooo grey. Permission to pursue stops when she says. Agreed. But it never used to be the social norm that women didn't have to be ladies. Many of them are worse than the guys. I have 3 young men sons. I teach them to respect women. Then society says, "F you" Nobody wants "religious values" being "forced down their throat" but they want people to know the limits of promiscuity being forced down our throat. I call BS.

For sure, that is correct. So you let people know what they did when they do it. We are seeing that now.

For a moment I thought we had achieved comprehension. I dunno.

A bit condescending?

Just an FYI..........this isn't based on suspicion and rumor. And it isn't a torrent of fake claims.

These are pieces of crap that have done their best to take advantage and have gotten away with it for a long time and deserve what they are getting.

Such a broad brush Les. What case are you talking about?

Prosecute the child molesters. The pedophiles. (Which by the way have enjoyed way too much cover by some politicians for years) The sexual predators. Halleluiah! I am all for it. Each case is different, though. Can we agree on that, Les?

A woman showing some interest in a man doesn't give him the right to do those things and it seems to me a few posters are saying they can justify why these guys did that because of that, or how she was dressed. That's crazy.

Crazy? maybe not. Let's let the other shoe drop here, Les.

 

[LesBaker]

It’s a case by case basis. Neither of us were there to see how the woman dressed or acted. I wondered if she was baiting purposely because it was 4 different guys. Other than a porn shoot where does that happen.

I remember a young PSU runningback get kicked out of school for rape. Any hopes of playing in the NFL were shot. 4 years later a friend of the girl came out and said that he was baited by the girl who willingly had sex and ran straight to the cops the next day. She thought she would get rich when he hit the NFL.

I know harassment is real but this case sounds fishy.

That's a cop out post and the dress and act thing is a shit barometer. It's just shit. Stop saying that! What is wrong with you that you keep going to the "how she was dressed" thing? WTF decade are you living in? That has NEVER been an excuse and certain;y I would hope we are more enlightened now.

It wasn't a porn shoot, where the fuck did that come from??? Suddenly now she is a fuck puppet looking to get paid???

Where does this happen you ask..........well according to the MULTIPLE men who have admitted to it we know it happens everywhere.

Actually this case sounds pretty typical. And ESPN has had issues in the past. You can Google it.

And for every case you claim is false and someone was damaged by it we can both find three or nine where a woman was damaged by it and the person that did it went on to make millions in their profession..........

 

[Mackeyser]

Wow, Les. Lots to cover here. First of all, thanks for your thoughtful responses. Secondly, a couple clarifications. I think you misread the essence of my post. My scenario was a hypothetical, yes. But by no means was it out of left field. I stand by that as the typical ensnarement scenario.

You state a couple times, "That is your opinion." Yes it is, and I recognize that. Please recognize, too. That your strong opinions are your OPINIONS. You act as though all facts are in evidence. Many of these guys are admitting to wrong doing. Videos and texts, etc. ARE evidence of sexual talk. NOT evidence of UNWANTED sexual talk and advances. YOU shouldn't lead with your chin on these matters. You may be right and you may not have the full story.
You heard me when I said that guys need to be respectful of women, and not do foolish things.

I think the sexual ethic today is HORRIBLE. Much of the blame goes to men. Much of the blame goes to Feminism. They want to be treated like guys, be promiscuous like guys. Be aggressors like guys. Take their RU486 and wooo! girls night out! Can't have it both ways. The line is soooo grey. Permission to pursue stops when she says. Agreed. But it never used to be the social norm that women didn't have to be ladies. Many of them are worse than the guys. I have 3 young men sons. I teach them to respect women. Then society says, "F you" Nobody wants "religious values" being "forced down their throat" but they want people to know the limits of promiscuity being forced down our throat. I call BS.

A bit condescending?

Such a broad brush Les. What case are you talking about?

Prosecute the child molesters. The pedophiles. (Which by the way have enjoyed way too much cover by some politicians for years) The sexual predators. Halleluiah! I am all for it. Each case is different, though. Can we agree on that, Les?



Crazy? maybe not. Let's let the other shoe drop here, Les.

I'll just say this.

A whole Footlocker full of "other shoes" can drop and there will STILL be people making the same argument you're making.

There isn't enough evidence including full confessions that will satisfy some people. I'm not saying you're one of them.

That said, these arguments of equivocation have been old since the '80s. At this point, they're old, tired and need to be retired.

Lastly, even as a devout Christian, I feel comfortable saying this has very little to do with "religious values". Men have been openly promiscuous for decades and...? Yep, nothing. Because men even if they disagree haven't had the existing power structure blast them.

Women only recently in historical terms have the power to say, "yes" or "no" and not face consequences up to and including death.

Again, this is one of many conversations we need to have as a society because as we see, it's really impossible to separate things like politics, religion, social justice, economics and other topics from real life, even if we don't necessarily want to talk about them on a football fan forum.

And the more we don't talk about these critical topics while in society at large, the more they will intrude on our downtime fun spaces.

We can fix the leaky roof or sit under the drip, but we can't reasonably complain about the leak if we don't make any effort to patch, let alone fix the roof.

 

[LesBaker]

Wow, Les. Lots to cover here. First of all, thanks for your thoughtful responses. Secondly, a couple clarifications. I think you misread the essence of my post. My scenario was a hypothetical, yes. But by no means was it out of left field. I stand by that as the typical ensnarement scenario.

You state a couple times, "That is your opinion." Yes it is, and I recognize that. Please recognize, too. That your strong opinions are your OPINIONS. You act as though all facts are in evidence. Many of these guys are admitting to wrong doing. Videos and texts, etc. ARE evidence of sexual talk. NOT evidence of UNWANTED sexual talk and advances. YOU shouldn't lead with your chin on these matters. You may be right and you may not have the full story.
You heard me when I said that guys need to be respectful of women, and not do foolish things.

I think the sexual ethic today is HORRIBLE. Much of the blame goes to men. Much of the blame goes to Feminism. They want to be treated like guys, be promiscuous like guys. Be aggressors like guys. Take their RU486 and wooo! girls night out! Can't have it both ways. The line is soooo grey. Permission to pursue stops when she says. Agreed. But it never used to be the social norm that women didn't have to be ladies. Many of them are worse than the guys. I have 3 young men sons. I teach them to respect women. Then society says, "F you" Nobody wants "religious values" being "forced down their throat" but they want people to know the limits of promiscuity being forced down our throat. I call BS.

A bit condescending?

Such a broad brush Les. What case are you talking about?

Prosecute the child molesters. The pedophiles. (Which by the way have enjoyed way too much cover by some politicians for years) The sexual predators. Halleluiah! I am all for it. Each case is different, though. Can we agree on that, Les?



Crazy? maybe not. Let's let the other shoe drop here, Les.

We can't have a conversation because you aren't up to it. You are so out of touch, it would be amusing..........if your viewpoint wasn't dangerous.

It's neanderthal.

And I will not have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

You said.......Much of the blame goes to Feminism. They want to be treated like guys, be promiscuous like guys. Be aggressors like guys. Take their RU486 and wooo! girls night out!

You are disgusting, and narrow minded, and part of the problem, and a big reason why victims DON'T bother to come forward because they face uninformed and idiotic people like you that accuse them and blame them.

You act all religious and sanctimonious, and say you love your god..........but excuse things men have done that horrible and pin it on feminism. How do you level those things?

Dude you are so dense I'm not even going to bother engaging you any further. You're caught up in the 70's or something and are so out of touch with reality it's no longer worth my time to discuss this issue with you because you are incapable of getting this even on the surface. So the more in depth stuff is wasted on you.

You should back out of this thread, you aren't qualified to be in it.