Captain hindsight: Robinson or Matthews?

[Memphis Ram]

1 Houston Texans Jadeveon Clowney DE South Carolina was starting before injury
2 St. Louis Rams Greg Robinson OT Auburn has he played? certainly not starting
3 Jacksonville Jaguars Blake Bortles QB UCF will be starting
4 Buffalo Bills Sammy Watkins WR Clemson is starting and has had some success 1 game over 100 yrds
5 Oakland Raiders Khalil Mack OLB Buffalo starting and producing
6 Atlanta Falcons Jake Matthews OT Texas A&M has been starting and playing LOT
7 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Mike Evans WR Texas A&M has been starting 13 catches on 21 targets
8 Cleveland Browns Justin Gilbert CB Oklahoma State 7 combined tackles in each of the first 2 games
9 Minnesota Vikings Anthony Barr OLB UCLA playing well 17 combined tackles in 3 games
10 Detroit Lions Eric Ebron TE North Carolina only 3 catches but will be seeing an expanded roll this week


So of the top ten picks, the other 9 have already contributed more to their respective teams. Is that Robinson's fault, is he that raw, is it a choice the FO is making?

Whatever it is, he isn't playing.

Could it be there's no fault to be had?

Some teams start rookies whether they are ready or not. Starting and playing well aren't the same thing.
Some players play positions that are typically rotated giving them a chance to contribute earlier.
And some team simply have enough depth to where they don't have to rush a rookie onto the field and destroy his confidence and/or hurt the team.

The #2 overall gift from the Redskins seems to have given the impression that last year's team was as bad as the others that selected high in that draft. But, the Rams were a solid team with a solid roster who went 7-9 minus it's starting QB. ie. they were better and had better rosters than the other teams with top 10 selections. It should shock no one when a rookie doesn't start immediately. And again, contributions can be limited if the player doesn't play a position that typically rotates.

 

[dbrooks25]

This crap is making my head hurt. Greg Robinson has a load of talent but the kid was a redshirt sophomore who is obviously going to be behind Matthews because of his experience. Once Robinson plays he WILL excel. All of this is way too premature.

 

[Philly5]

This forum is much better than the one I used to frequent.

RFIP is offering his valid opinion/concern. People may disagree and have their own opinions. Not sure why they need to criticize RFIP that they are tired of reading his opinion or that he lacks facts.

Facts are very limited at this point. Lots of opinions.

 

[jrry32]

This forum is much better than the one I used to frequent.

RFIP is offering his valid opinion/concern. People may disagree and have their own opinions. Not sure why they need to criticize RFIP that they are tired of reading his opinion or that he lacks facts.

Facts are very limited at this point. Lots of opinions.

Opinion is fine. Comparing Robinson to Jason Smith is going to get you rightfully criticized. There is no comparison. Bringing up Smith is solely to pour salt in an old wound while implying that Robinson will end up being a bust too.

I have no issues with someone posting their opinion and backing it up. But posting a bunch of thinly veiled implications that Robinson is going to be a bust is going to earn you criticism on this board.

 

[Philly5]

Opinion is fine. Comparing Robinson to Jason Smith is going to get you rightfully criticized. There is no comparison. Bringing up Smith is solely to pour salt in an old wound while implying that Robinson will end up being a bust too.

I have no issues with someone posting their opinion and backing it up. But posting a bunch of thinly veiled implications that Robinson is going to be a bust is going to earn you criticism on this board.

Smith was a Tackle taken with the #2 pick that was a bit of a developmental project. Sounds familiar to me at this point. Those things seem like enough to support his opinion. Lets hope we see something soon to make us think otherwise.

 

[RFIP]

Whatever point you think you proved I really hope it made you feel better.

As for GRob & J Smith one link they will always have is neither should have been drafted by the Rams or anyone else at #2 overall.

 

[Rams43]

1) Watkins
2) Matthews

Would not have drafted Ribinson in round 1 period. Holes were too obvious then....and still now.

You wouldn't have drafted GRob in the 1st round at all, RFIP? Did I get that right?

And after 4+ months post draft, you're still thinking that Watkins would have filled the bigger hole on our Rams team? Am I reading you correctly here? Quick and Britt (with Bailey now available) notwithstanding?

Just how many footballs does our backup QB have to throw, anyway? He seems to be throwing to 8 different receivers each week as it is. Receiving targets are no longer a glaring team need.

However, OL is still an area that could be a minefield. ESPECIALLY considering 3 starters come with health questions.

Both GRob and Matthews represented better value/need for the Rams. I preferred GRob on draft day. Still do today.

 

[RFIP]

Smith was a Tackle taken with the #2 pick that was a bit of a developmental project. Sounds familiar to me at this point. Those things seem like enough to support his opinion. Lets hope we see something soon to make us think otherwise.

Exactly.

And every fan knows this too well.

Both where over drafted, Smith shot the bed, Robinson is WAY behind at LT for certain and it should be shocking to everyone that he can't start at G.

Fisher on why he's not playing; "because we want to keep our QB upright.."

I mean does it have to get much clearer than that?

First snap he got in vs Minny when Saffold got shook up the Vines ran a simple T/E stunt and he wiffed on both, got Davis SMASHED and he threw a pick.

As I say in time, a LOT of time, he may turn out to be a fine LT...but in the situation the Rams are in they had no business drafting him at #2.

 

[RFIP]

Exactly.

And every fan knows this too well.

Both where over drafted, Smith shot the bed, Robinson is WAY behind at LT for certain and it should be shocking to everyone that he can't start at G.

Fisher on why he's not playing; "because we want to keep our QB upright.."

I mean does it have to get much clearer than that?

First snap he got in vs Minny when Saffold got shook up the Vines ran a simple T/E stunt and he wiffed on both, got Davis SMASHED and he threw a pick.

As I say in time, a LOT of time, he may turn out to be a fine LT...but in the situation the Rams are in they had no business drafting him at #2.

If you still prefer GRob then you've given up on this season.

And when I wanted Watkins it was still Sam's team.

PROVEN talent wise the top 2 players in the draft where Watkins and Clowney. PROVEN OL wise Matthews was clearly ahead of Robinson.

PROJECTION wise GRob has a higher ceiling than Matthews but the Rams OL needs help NOW not 3 years from now.

 

[jrry32]

Smith was a Tackle taken with the #2 pick that was a bit of a developmental project. Sounds familiar to me at this point. Those things seem like enough to support his opinion. Lets hope we see something soon to make us think otherwise.

Player A
6'5"
305(struggled keeping weight on)
33.75" arms
Lacked Natural Strength
Questionable Ability as a Run Blocker
Air Raid College offense
5th Year Senior
Outstanding lateral agility
Extremely light, quick feet
Horrendous foot-work...no kick-slide whatsoever
Struggled driving players off the LOS
Suited for ZBS
Lacked a mean streak

Player B
6'5"
335
35" arms
Freakish Natural Strength
One of the best run blockers in a very long time
Read Option Run Oriented Spread
Third Year Sophomore
Foot-work could use development but did have a kick-slide
Dominant drive blocker
Suited for any type of blocking scheme
Mean Streak for days
Struggles with hand placement and punch timing as a pass blocker
Struggles with deciphering complex blitz schemes and stunts/twists up-front

It only sounds familiar if you don't know anything about the two players. Greg Robinson and Jason Smith are as similar of players as Nick Foles and Colin Kaepernick. "They're both 6'5", drafted outside the first round, and play QB so they must be similar."

Greg Robinson is the anti-Jason Smith. He's on the complete opposite side of the spectrum for a project OT. He's a dominating run blocker with freakish natural strength and a massive body. Jason Smith was a freaky agile pass blocker with quick feet and great ability to block on the move. Smith was tailor made for the ZBS. Robinson is tailor made for the PBS. Like I said, it's like comparing a pocket passer to a scrambling QB. They're completely dissimilar players.

And you know why Smith sucked in the NFL? Well, one reason why...his greatest strength was supposed to be his pass blocking ability but his fundamentals were so poor and undeveloped that they completely negated any athletic advantage he had.

So give me a dominating run blocker that needs to improve his pass blocking over a guy like Smith whose greatest strength was negated by his greatest weakness.

One final note, as Memphis mentioned, Jason Smith had to put effort into putting on weight for the combine because he played around 300-305(at best) and was a former TE. One of his biggest issues coming out was his lack of "natural" strength and struggles driving players off the LOS due to underwhelming lower body strength. Greg Robinson LOST weight for the combine as a guy that played around 335-340.

 

[jrry32]

If you still prefer GRob then you've given up on this season.

If you prefer Watkins, you're a 49ers fan. See...I can make laughably absurd ultimatums too.

 

[rdlkgliders]

I think we all have this wrong it is quite obvious that going from stats we need a pass rushing DE

 

[Amitar]

I wanted Watkins but for the thread I would have traded back and drafted Mathews. Is Robinson really gong to be that much better then Mathews and we would have an extra pick.

 

[rhinobean]

Wouldn't have hurt my feelings if the Rams had drafted Martin at 13 but he wasn't the bpa!

 

[Philly5]

Player A
6'5"
305(struggled keeping weight on)
33.75" arms
Lacked Natural Strength
Questionable Ability as a Run Blocker
Air Raid College offense
5th Year Senior
Outstanding lateral agility
Extremely light, quick feet
Horrendous foot-work...no kick-slide whatsoever
Struggled driving players off the LOS
Suited for ZBS
Lacked a mean streak

Player B
6'5"
335
35" arms
Freakish Natural Strength
One of the best run blockers in a very long time
Read Option Run Oriented Spread
Third Year Sophomore
Foot-work could use development but did have a kick-slide
Dominant drive blocker
Suited for any type of blocking scheme
Mean Streak for days
Struggles with hand placement and punch timing as a pass blocker
Struggles with deciphering complex blitz schemes and stunts/twists up-front

Good info, but I don't think anybody was saying the two were clones as players coming out of college.
Raw tackles drafted #2 by the same team are the similarities. Keep in mind that big, strong, mean players sometimes wash out of the NFL also.

Back in June people would have been criticized for even suggesting GRob would not be a starter.

 

[jrry32]

Good info, but I don't think anybody was saying the two were clones as players coming out of college.
Raw tackles drafted #2 by the same team are the similarities. Keep in mind that big, strong, mean players sometimes wash out of the NFL also.

Back in June people would have been criticized for even suggesting GRob would not be a starter.

So Kaepernick and Foles are similar too then.

 

[jrry32]

I wanted Watkins but for the thread I would have traded back and drafted Mathews. Is Robinson really gong to be that much better then Mathews and we would have an extra pick.

How? The Bills made the offer and they were picking #9. That would have likely left us with choosing Donald at #9 and Martin at #14. Good looking haul...but we wouldn't have a LT of the future although Martin would be the starting LG and we'd have Buffalo's first and fourth next year.

 

[jjab360]

Good info, but I don't think anybody was saying the two were clones as players coming out of college.
Raw tackles drafted #2 by the same team are the similarities. Keep in mind that big, strong, mean players sometimes wash out of the NFL also.

Back in June people would have been criticized for even suggesting GRob would not be a starter.

Yeah and Tom Brady and Garrett Gilbert are both strong armed QBs taken in the 6th round. It's a ridiculous comparison...

 

[Philly5]

So Kaepernick and Foles are similar too then.

Well if the Rams drafted Foles with the #2 pick in 2009, and he quickly washed out because he was too raw, then they drafted Kaepernick in 2014 with the #2 pick and he was also considered raw, I think there would be concerns that the Rams should have taken the more polished QB that went a few picks later. Even though Foles and Kaep had different college playing styles.

 

[ZigZagRam]

Robinson. I draft players for what they can become, not what they are after three freakin' games.

No patience anymore. It's ridiculous.