The Insanity of Youth Sports

[fearsomefour]

I am at a baseball tournament last weekend watching my sons summer ball team play. Teams from California, Nevada, Washington Idaho ect. A couple of different age groups. A team from Washington (good team by the way) had a full on "Bon Jovi" bus with their team logo painted on the side ect. This was a full size like rock band tour bus. They play all over the west and will be gone a couple weeks at a time...that sort of makes sense, but, the cost must have been crazy. I thought that was kind of nuts then....
A buddy of mine who lives in Denver called and was talking about his sons team playing in a tournament in Cooperstown (now flying from Denver across the country for a 12U is crazy to me) for his sons 12U team. They were playing a team from California. This team actually flew in a couple of pitchers just to pitch in this tournament. They flew in Thursday night and left Sat morning. The team also provided a tutor to help with any missed school work (year round school). It just makes me laugh and shake my head. Flying 12 year old kids across country with a tutor to play in a 12U tourney....this is really the level of mental illness.
Youth sports....creating scars that last a life time.
Lets hear some good, crazy youth sports stories....

 

[Boston Ram]

I was fortunate to travel as a little leaguer and as a 13 year old on a Babe Ruth team. My travel stayed on the East Coast but played against teams from all over.

Honestly these were some of my greatest memories. Playing against the Tampa Bay Ravens lead by Gary Sheffield is something I have been able to brag about for years lol.

I'm 47 now, youth sports have been doing this for over 35 years. It's really nothing new and the teams or programs that have money travel better than others

I don't think these kids are really being scarred, if anything there building life long memories and experiences. I hope my kids are able to have similar experiences

 

[fearsomefour]

The scared for life was a joke....
Having been involved with youth sports for years now I would not want my kid playing on a team like this. The sense of entitlement must be crazy.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Interesting conversation...

On one hand, I do worry that some of these kids are exposed to more pressure than maybe they should (I said maybe).

On the other hand, as Boston relays, those experiences can result in some of the best memories a kid can have.

But I wonder how much more "ramped up" the pressure has gotten since Boston was in the BR league... just seems to me that so much is driven by the parents... living vicariously through their kids.

If the parent is not really forcing it... and the kid is really enjoying it, then I say it's a great thing.

But if the parent if forcing things and the kid feels pressure to do it, then it can scar IMO.

Lots of potential for great things... lots of potential for bad things.

 

[Fatbot]

Like Boston Ram mentioned if you put aside the excess luxury and disparity points that introduced the topic, this could potentially be an amazing experience for the kids. I had friends travel to Japan to play a baseball tour and they still remember it changing their lives growing up. BUT my big concern would be the parents. Parents today are just such morons from what I've experienced at various all star baseball levels, youth football, AAU basketball, etc. I assume an even grander scale team like these has even greater danger of the parents totally perverting the experience from an amazing opportunity to view and learn about the world and other places from other peoples eyes to being all about winning, beats headphones, selfies, even more me-first and nobody else matters idiot mentality.

 

[PowayRamFan]

A

I am at a baseball tournament last weekend watching my sons summer ball team play. Teams from California, Nevada, Washington Idaho ect. A couple of different age groups. A team from Washington (good team by the way) had a full on "Bon Jovi" bus with their team logo painted on the side ect. This was a full size like rock band tour bus. They play all over the west and will be gone a couple weeks at a time...that sort of makes sense, but, the cost must have been crazy. I thought that was kind of nuts then....
A buddy of mine who lives in Denver called and was talking about his sons team playing in a tournament in Cooperstown (now flying from Denver across the country for a 12U is crazy to me) for his sons 12U team. They were playing a team from California. This team actually flew in a couple of pitchers just to pitch in this tournament. They flew in Thursday night and left Sat morning. The team also provided a tutor to help with any missed school work (year round school). It just makes me laugh and shake my head. Flying 12 year old kids across country with a tutor to play in a 12U tourney....this is really the level of mental illness.
Youth sports....creating scars that last a life time.
Lets hear some good, crazy youth sports stories....

A kid from my neighborhood plays for a 12u team from here in California named "the Show". He was in Cooperstown for that tourney, unfortunately he had to miss his little league all-star games for this, sad. Our LL had a very good team, but he was the best pitcher and they lost without him. This is something about travel ball that bugs me. I assume the kids that flew in late were trying to play in as many LL tourney games as possible.
My nine year old is starting travel ball this week, when he gets older I think his commitment to his LL team will come first, hopefully.

 

[Boston Ram]

The scared for life was a joke....
Having been involved with youth sports for years now I would not want my kid playing on a team like this. The sense of entitlement must be crazy.

Sorry lol.

 

[Boston Ram]

Like Boston Ram mentioned if you put aside the excess luxury and disparity points that introduced the topic, this could potentially be an amazing experience for the kids. I had friends travel to Japan to play a baseball tour and they still remember it changing their lives growing up. BUT my big concern would be the parents. Parents today are just such morons from what I've experienced at various all star baseball levels, youth football, AAU basketball, etc. I assume an even grander scale team like these has even greater danger of the parents totally perverting the experience from an amazing opportunity to view and learn about the world and other places from other peoples eyes to being all about winning, beats headphones, selfies, even more me-first and nobody else matters idiot mentality.

Have to agree with you and @Rmfnlt it seems like the parents are the crazy ones and screw everything up.

On the other hand LL All star and Babe Ruth All star games took priority over any AAU (Baystate Games when I was a kid) Summer programs did not exist if your All Star teams were playing. Not sure how it is done now and my son wont be in LL for another 2 years.

 

[Boston Ram]

A

A kid from my neighborhood plays for a 12u team from here in California named "the Show". He was in Cooperstown for that tourney, unfortunately he had to miss his little league all-star games for this, sad. Our LL had a very good team, but he was the best pitcher and they lost without him. This is something about travel ball that bugs me. I assume the kids that flew in late were trying to play in as many LL tourney games as possible.
My nine year old is starting travel ball this week, when he gets older I think his commitment to his LL team will come first, hopefully.

I think I replied to this in the wrong thread. That is a shame. Back in my day and even when I coached in my 20's All Star teams took priority over everything. I don't know if it was a town thing or not. The town I grew up in geared up for All Star games and that was really the focus. We had the Baystate Games which is now AAU but our town would not have an entry if our All Star team(s) made districts.

Its a shame the kids have to make a choice. That being said, I was lucky enough to play at Cooperstown also. Probably the best baseball experience of my life. Also its worth noting there is not like playing at Double Day field. If you ever get a chance to get up there you have to walk in the dugouts. If you are 5'9" or taller you wont fit lol. Be sure to duck.

 

[Boston Ram]

A

A kid from my neighborhood plays for a 12u team from here in California named "the Show". He was in Cooperstown for that tourney, unfortunately he had to miss his little league all-star games for this, sad. Our LL had a very good team, but he was the best pitcher and they lost without him. This is something about travel ball that bugs me. I assume the kids that flew in late were trying to play in as many LL tourney games as possible.
My nine year old is starting travel ball this week, when he gets older I think his commitment to his LL team will come first, hopefully.

I think I replied to this in the wrong thread. That is a shame. Back in my day and even when I coached in my 20's All Star teams took priority over everything. I don't know if it was a town thing or not. The town I grew up in geared up for All Star games and that was really the focus. We had the Baystate Games which is now AAU but our town would not have an entry if our All Star team(s) made districts.

Its a shame the kids have to make a choice. That being said, I was lucky enough to play at Cooperstown also. Probably the best baseball experience of my life. Also its worth noting there is not like playing at Double Day field. If you ever get a chance to get up there you have to walk in the dugouts. If you are 5'9" or taller you wont fit lol. Be sure to duck.

 

[PARAM]

I was fortunate to travel as a little leaguer and as a 13 year old on a Babe Ruth team. My travel stayed on the East Coast but played against teams from all over.

Honestly these were some of my greatest memories.

When I was 14, I played with the Hamilton (Twp, NJ) Nationals 15 year old all stars in 1971. We went to the BRL World Series in Albuquerque, NM at the Albuquerque Dodgers Stadium. It was an awesome experience, flying from Philadelphia Int. (my 1st flight of course) to Chicago, to Albuquerque. An experience I will never forget. We played in the league that was the birthplace of BRL Baseball and we had 20 teams in 2 divisions. The league won the bid to host the Mid-Atlantic Regional Tournament so we had to play a best of 3 with the Hamilton Americans (the other division's all stars). We won 2 games to 1 and hosted the Regional Tourney. We beat Staten Island in our tourney debut but lost to Piscataway, NJ and moved to losers bracket. We beat Millcreek (Del), Riverfront (NJ), South Utica (NY) and Chester (Pa)NJ earning a spot to avenge our loss against Piscataway. We won game one 10-2 and game two 6-3 to earn our place in the World Series. I couldn't sleep that night. The league held a fund raiser and bought us all suits; red blazers/gray slacks because they wanted us to "look like a team" and that's what we wore on the flight out and to the welcoming banquet. BTW, I got Lefty Gomez's autograph on the banquet program, as he was the guest speaker and I still have it. Was it overboard? Tailored blazers and slacks? Probably. But we were ballplayers and playing on that field (centerfield) with grass like plush carpet and the ball flying a little farther because of the thinner air was like a dream come true. My anticipated career as a ballplayer never played out like I thought but I will always have that. And I don't feel a bit entitled or special. Just one lucky SOB.

 

[fearsomefour]

My son playing Babe Ruth has been my favorite experience of his time playing baseball so far....he is still playing.
The travel ball thing just seems out of control to me sometimes.

 

[PARAM]

BTW, in Albuquerque, we beat St. Paul, Minnesota lost to Lompoc, Cal and Sarasota, Fl. The last two games were played on the same day because of two days of rain, 11 am and 8 pm. We felt like losers after giving up a 5-2 lead in the nightcap. But kids that age are resilient and there's always next year. It didn't hurt that the bus bringing us back from the airport delivered us to a banquet hall instead of the fieldhouse where we departed. There were about 300 people there to welcome us back and the local radio station that broadcast the games back to NJ did interviews with all of us. Howard David (Sirius NFL radio; Miami Dolphins) was the broadcaster who accompanied us to NM and called the games for the folks back home. My biggest thrill was my brother describing his call of my throwing a runner out at home in the first game.

What's wrong with taking kids all over the country to participate in team sports? Much like traveling it expands your horizons (we met a team from Puerto Rico, the eventual champions). Kids will learn what you teach them.

 

[fearsomefour]

BTW, in Albuquerque, we beat St. Paul, Minnesota lost to Lompoc, Cal and Sarasota, Fl. The last two games were played on the same day because of two days of rain, 11 am and 8 pm. We felt like losers after giving up a 5-2 lead in the nightcap. But kids that age are resilient and there's always next year. It didn't hurt that the bus bringing us back from the airport delivered us to a banquet hall instead of the fieldhouse where we departed. There were about 300 people there to welcome us back and the local radio station that broadcast the games back to NJ did interviews with all of us. Howard David (Sirius NFL radio; Miami Dolphins) was the broadcaster who accompanied us to NM and called the games for the folks back home. My biggest thrill was my brother describing his call of my throwing a runner out at home in the first game.

What's wrong with taking kids all over the country to participate in team sports? Much like traveling it expands your horizons (we met a team from Puerto Rico, the eventual champions). Kids will learn what you teach them.

I get what you saying.
The vibe is very different. When my son played Babe Ruth and they won the state title (he was state tourney MVP....brag, brag) those kids knew each other for several years. Played with and against each other for quite awhile. The travel ball thing seems to be a scene where there is a ton of one upsmanship...."elite" this and that. A summer ball team charging $3,000 + for a summer ball (for older kids) season is not unusual. We play teams all the time that cherry pick rosters from all over four tournaments, the kids don't know each other really. To me it has the reek of parents cutting checks for the status of being on "that" team and the guys running the teams trophy hunting at tournaments. To me that is night and day to a group of kids who know each other and are more of a guinine team car pooling it or renting a bus to get to their regional tournament and taking it from there. Travel baseball is a year round big business for many of these team owners and the priorities are very misplaced in some cases, at least to me.

 

[Boston Ram]

When I was 14, I played with the Hamilton (Twp, NJ) Nationals 15 year old all stars in 1971. We went to the BRL World Series in Albuquerque, NM at the Albuquerque Dodgers Stadium. It was an awesome experience, flying from Philadelphia Int. (my 1st flight of course) to Chicago, to Albuquerque. An experience I will never forget. We played in the league that was the birthplace of BRL Baseball and we had 20 teams in 2 divisions. The league won the bid to host the Mid-Atlantic Regional Tournament so we had to play a best of 3 with the Hamilton Americans (the other division's all stars). We won 2 games to 1 and hosted the Regional Tourney. We beat Staten Island in our tourney debut but lost to Piscataway, NJ and moved to losers bracket. We beat Millcreek (Del), Riverfront (NJ), South Utica (NY) and Chester (Pa)NJ earning a spot to avenge our loss against Piscataway. We won game one 10-2 and game two 6-3 to earn our place in the World Series. I couldn't sleep that night. The league held a fund raiser and bought us all suits; red blazers/gray slacks because they wanted us to "look like a team" and that's what we wore on the flight out and to the welcoming banquet. BTW, I got Lefty Gomez's autograph on the banquet program, as he was the guest speaker and I still have it. Was it overboard? Tailored blazers and slacks? Probably. But we were ballplayers and playing on that field (centerfield) with grass like plush carpet and the ball flying a little farther because of the thinner air was like a dream come true. My anticipated career as a ballplayer never played out like I thought but I will always have that. And I don't feel a bit entitled or special. Just one lucky SOB.

Babe Ruth did it right. Dodgers minor league field is awesome. We played at Baseball City in Orlando home to the Royals AA team. We had to drive down to FLA. That is were we lost 13-0 to Tampa in the first round. We played a team from Texas and then PA. We were 1-2 but it was still awesome.

 

[Boston Ram]

I get what you saying.
The vibe is very different. When my son played Babe Ruth and they won the state title (he was state tourney MVP....brag, brag) those kids knew each other for several years. Played with and against each other for quite awhile. The travel ball thing seems to be a scene where there is a ton of one upsmanship...."elite" this and that. A summer ball team charging $3,000 + for a summer ball (for older kids) season is not unusual. We play teams all the time that cherry pick rosters from all over four tournaments, the kids don't know each other really. To me it has the reek of parents cutting checks for the status of being on "that" team and the guys running the teams trophy hunting at tournaments. To me that is night and day to a group of kids who know each other and are more of a guinine team car pooling it or renting a bus to get to their regional tournament and taking it from there. Travel baseball is a year round big business for many of these team owners and the priorities are very misplaced in some cases, at least to me.

Wow sounds like I'm in for a rude awakening when my son gets old enough and of course if he is good enough lol.

 

[PARAM]

I get what you saying.
The vibe is very different. When my son played Babe Ruth and they won the state title (he was state tourney MVP....brag, brag) those kids knew each other for several years. Played with and against each other for quite awhile. The travel ball thing seems to be a scene where there is a ton of one upsmanship...."elite" this and that. ....... Travel baseball is a year round big business for many of these team owners and the priorities are very misplaced in some cases, at least to me.

You are right about some travel ball. To me, that's not the same as a group of kids playing travel ball together for a few years. You want to talk about "elitism" and "sense of entitlement" check out girls travel ball. The parents are trying to get their kids a softball scholarship to college.

Babe Ruth did it right. Dodgers minor league field is awesome. We played at Baseball City in Orlando home to the Royals AA team. We had to drive down to FLA. That is were we lost 13-0 to Tampa in the first round. We played a team from Texas and then PA. We were 1-2 but it was still awesome.

Yeah when I was growing up it was little league (7-9 division and then 10-12), Babe Ruth League 13-15 and then American Legion ball (16-18). I also played in a summer collegiate league that was created, I suppose, to give the college players home for a couple of months a place to stayed tuned up. I don't know if it's still the same below legion ball but things have certainly changed with the advent of travel ball.

That being said, I guess with travel ball, if the kid is talented enough they get to pick their team whereas in a league structure the team pick the kids. Plus there's the problem of volunteers to manage, run the league and it seems now-a-days when a guy's kid is past the age to participate, his volunteering ceases. Back in the day (I hate to keep using that phrase but..) we had guys who managed league teams year in and year out. I guess there was a friendly (and sometimes not so friendly) competition between them.

Times change for good or bad.

 

[fearsomefour]

Like Boston Ram mentioned if you put aside the excess luxury and disparity points that introduced the topic, this could potentially be an amazing experience for the kids. I had friends travel to Japan to play a baseball tour and they still remember it changing their lives growing up. BUT my big concern would be the parents. Parents today are just such morons from what I've experienced at various all star baseball levels, youth football, AAU basketball, etc. I assume an even grander scale team like these has even greater danger of the parents totally perverting the experience from an amazing opportunity to view and learn about the world and other places from other peoples eyes to being all about winning, beats headphones, selfies, even more me-first and nobody else matters idiot mentality.

This is really sort of what I am touching on.
Traveling in a normal way, staying with a host family as apposed to the 5 star hotel, eating locally ect. Travel can be great and is great. It is the spending of money to create this weird bubble around the kids....that traveling first class and having 8 different professional quality uniform combinations some how relates to developing skill in the game.
Maybe I am just an old grump at this point.

 

[fearsomefour]

You are right about some travel ball. To me, that's not the same as a group of kids playing travel ball together for a few years. You want to talk about "elitism" and "sense of entitlement" check out girls travel ball. The parents are trying to get their kids a softball scholarship to college.



Yeah when I was growing up it was little league (7-9 division and then 10-12), Babe Ruth League 13-15 and then American Legion ball (16-18). I also played in a summer collegiate league that was created, I suppose, to give the college players home for a couple of months a place to stayed tuned up. I don't know if it's still the same below legion ball but things have certainly changed with the advent of travel ball.

That being said, I guess with travel ball, if the kid is talented enough they get to pick their team whereas in a league structure the team pick the kids. Plus there's the problem of volunteers to manage, run the league and it seems now-a-days when a guy's kid is past the age to participate, his volunteering ceases. Back in the day (I hate to keep using that phrase but..) we had guys who managed league teams year in and year out. I guess there was a friendly (and sometimes not so friendly) competition between them.

Times change for good or bad.

Most of the travel ball organizations are based on this idea of getting kids to college to play baseball. There is a false equivalency that goes on with money spent = quality instruction.
The vast majority of high school players are not going to play in college....about 6% move on.
I live in a town with a population of about 240,000 people. Not huge, not small. 5 or 6 years ago there was were two travel ball "organizations", one with teams from 9U to 19U, one with a 12U team and a 14U team. Now there are 7 or so travel ball groups. Most with their own 10,000 sq foot or larger facility and multiple teams running from 8 or 9 years old to 18 or 19. Way too much saturation....a few of them have multi tiered softball for girls too. It has turned into a big business.

 

[fearsomefour]

Wow sounds like I'm in for a rude awakening when my son gets old enough and of course if he is good enough lol.

The good news is, while most (in my experience) want to run their "organizations" like they invented baseball and have the golden road to a baseball scholarship, there are still some that are pretty grounded.
The other thing that makes me nuts is having kids specialize and play one sport very young. If it is from the kid and he only likes one, thats cool, but, more often I have seen parents not let their kids play other sports because they are "training" for a particular one.