looks like the Dodgers were robbed of back to back World Series

[Akrasian]

MLB’s sign-stealing controversy broadens: Sources say the Red Sox used video replay room illegally in 2018

Replay rooms across the sport evolved into hives of sign-stealing activity before MLB attempted to crack down.

theathletic.com

So now it looks like both the 2017 Astros and the 2018 Red Sox cheated to steal signs in their World Series wins over the Dodgers.

Freakin' ridiculous.

Obviously the Dodgers can't really be awarded retroactive titles - but at some point they (and the other teams beaten by the cheaters in the playoffs) deserve some sort of compensation, and the two cheating teams need harsh penalties. What would be appropriate?

 

[coconut]

MLB’s sign-stealing controversy broadens: Sources say the Red Sox used video replay room illegally in 2018

Replay rooms across the sport evolved into hives of sign-stealing activity before MLB attempted to crack down.

theathletic.com

So now it looks like both the 2017 Astros and the 2018 Red Sox cheated to steal signs in their World Series wins over the Dodgers.

Freakin' ridiculous.

Obviously the Dodgers can't really be awarded retroactive titles - but at some point they (and the other teams beaten by the cheaters in the playoffs) deserve some sort of compensation, and the two cheating teams need harsh penalties. What would be appropriate?

View: https://youtu.be/sBmFwKH5bVY

 

[coconut]

MLB’s sign-stealing controversy broadens: Sources say the Red Sox used video replay room illegally in 2018

Replay rooms across the sport evolved into hives of sign-stealing activity before MLB attempted to crack down.

theathletic.com

So now it looks like both the 2017 Astros and the 2018 Red Sox cheated to steal signs in their World Series wins over the Dodgers.

Freakin' ridiculous.

Obviously the Dodgers can't really be awarded retroactive titles - but at some point they (and the other teams beaten by the cheaters in the playoffs) deserve some sort of compensation, and the two cheating teams need harsh penalties. What would be appropriate?

Man that sucks. Retroactive titles, why not? It isn't the Black Sox scandal. The Astros and Red Sox cheated to WIN.

Stealing signs is part of the game. The use of extracurricular technology to steal signs is what needs to be made illegal. I think that distinction should be (and I hope is) understood by all. (I haven't read the article but intend to do so. Weather moving in and I have to get some things done outside!)

 

[nighttrain]

fine them heavily with loss of draft choices, it will hurt
train

 

[Dodgersrf]

Man that sucks. Retroactive titles, why not? It isn't the Black Sox scandal. The Astros and Red Sox cheated to WIN.

Stealing signs is part of the game. The use of extracurricular technology to steal signs is what needs to be made illegal. I think that distinction should be (and I hope is) understood by all. (I haven't read the article but intend to do so. Weather moving in and I have to get some things done outside!)

They were stealing them electronically. Then they would beat signals on a trash can in the dugout, so the players on the field would know what's coming.

 

[coconut]

They were stealing them electronically. Then they would beat signals on a trash can in the dugout, so the players on the field would know what's coming.

Without doubt that is cheating. Can someone post the entire article? I can't get past a few paragraphs.

 

[OldSchool]

Without doubt that is cheating. Can someone post the entire article? I can't get past a few paragraphs.

It’s behind a paywall. A YouTube guy has some amazing breakdowns of it. His name is jomboy and he does a great job with this.

 

[dieterbrock]

Man that sucks. Retroactive titles, why not? It isn't the Black Sox scandal. The Astros and Red Sox cheated to WIN.

And had to cheat to beat the Yankees to get to the WS in the 1st place, so I'm not sure how they can award a title to anyone else. Not that they would anyhow.
The rightful thing might be to just vacate the titles but that would mean leaving an indelible mark in the MLB history book

 

[Dieter the Brock]

I have been waiting since 1988 for a World Series title

Getting robbed by cheaters and having no recourse blows. I mean if they awarded the Dodgers two World Series rings what then? Do we get parades? It’s a joke. I hate the fact the teams I love are getting historically rocked by cheats - the Rams and now the Dodgers.

 

[Akrasian]

When a St Louis exec hacked the Astros draft database they had to send several draft picks to the Astros. I think the Red Sox and the Cardinals need to send picks to each of the teams they beat in the 2017 and 2018 playoffs. That's the precedent. And it needs to be severe enough that the teams are significantly hurt for years to come. Picks and slot money in significant amounts.

I'm biased as a Dodgers fan, but the penalty has to be severe enough that teams know that doing so is going to hurt them very much - and that future offenses (by any team) will be punished even more severely.

I'm thinking their first three draft picks for years to come, plus all of their slot money for a few seasons. If they sign a free agent so they lose a pick, then that means they will lose a pick for an additional year. Vacate their titles too, making it clear that they may not use any references to titles in promotional materials. League references to those Series should make it clear that there was cheating involved, so instead of the teams getting any honor it is made clear that they dishonored themselves and MLB.

 

[coconut]

When a St Louis exec hacked the Astros draft database they had to send several draft picks to the Astros. I think the Red Sox and the Astros need to send picks to each of the teams they beat in the 2017 and 2018 playoffs. That's the precedent. And it needs to be severe enough that the teams are significantly hurt for years to come. Picks and slot money in significant amounts.

I'm biased as a Dodgers fan, but the penalty has to be severe enough that teams know that doing so is going to hurt them very much - and that future offenses (by any team) will be punished even more severely.

I'm thinking their first three draft picks for years to come, plus all of their slot money for a few seasons. If they sign a free agent so they lose a pick, then that means they will lose a pick for an additional year. Vacate their titles too, making it clear that they may not use any references to titles in promotional materials. League references to those Series should make it clear that there was cheating involved, so instead of the teams getting any honor it is made clear that they dishonored themselves and MLB.

FIFY

 

[dieterbrock]

I have been waiting since 1988 for a World Series title

Getting robbed by cheaters and having no recourse blows. I mean if they awarded the Dodgers two World Series rings what then? Do we get parades? It’s a joke. I hate the fact the teams I love are getting historically rocked by cheats - the Rams and now the Dodgers.

I hear you on that. Baseball was robbed in 2017 of what would have been a story book WS. Yankees had a magic carpet ride season with Aaron Judge breakout rookie year. A Yankees/Dodgers WS would have been Epic. Yankees held Astros to 5 runs in 3 games in the homer friendly Bronx, and headed to Houston up 3-2 but all of a sudden couldn’t get the Astros out as they scored 11 runs in the final 2 games.

 

[snackdaddy]

So now the Boston baseball team cheats? Who knew? They get some assistance from the Patriots? I wonder how the Celtics can figure out how to cheat? Basketball might be a little harder. Unless they design automatic adjustable rims to make it smaller for opponents then bigger when its their side of the court. Hey, I might be onto something.

Seriously though, I wonder if Yu Darvish feels vindicated? Everyone kept saying he was tipping his pitches and that is how they knew what was coming. There is no way they award the Dodgers those titles. And as a fan I wouldn't want them that way. But sending extra picks to the Dodgers I would be fine with.

 

[RamFan503]

I have been waiting since 1988 for a World Series title

Getting robbed by cheaters and having no recourse blows. I mean if they awarded the Dodgers two World Series rings what then? Do we get parades? It’s a joke. I hate the fact the teams I love are getting historically rocked by cheats - the Rams and now the Dodgers.

I just found my 88 world series pin. So... Me too.

 

[RhodyRams]

I just found my 88 world series pin. So... Me too.

you forgot the hashtag

#metoo

 

[RamFan503]

you forgot the hashtag

#metoo

I left it with my panties and bra.

 

[dieterbrock]

you forgot the hashtag

#metoo

I left it with my panties and bra.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Man that sucks. Retroactive titles, why not? It isn't the Black Sox scandal. The Astros and Red Sox cheated to WIN.

Stealing signs is part of the game. The use of extracurricular technology to steal signs is what needs to be made illegal. I think that distinction should be (and I hope is) understood by all. (I haven't read the article but intend to do so. Weather moving in and I have to get some things done outside!)

that doesn't work because they cheated teams on the way to the World Series. those teams are as deserving as the Dodgers, i.e. The Yankees

So now the Boston baseball team cheats? Who knew? They get some assistance from the Patriots? I wonder how the Celtics can figure out how to cheat? Basketball might be a little harder. Unless they design automatic adjustable rims to make it smaller for opponents then bigger when its their side of the court. Hey, I might be onto something.

Seriously though, I wonder if Yu Darvish feels vindicated? Everyone kept saying he was tipping his pitches and that is how they knew what was coming. There is no way they award the Dodgers those titles. And as a fan I wouldn't want them that way. But sending extra picks to the Dodgers I would be fine with.

Boston's manager, Alex Cora came from the Astros organization. He was an assistant coach there. So it's likely that this cheating goes back further.


I'd ban all coaches involved and force the owner to sell. All the players would have to turn in their rings and pay back any extra money they got from the series and playoffs because they were complicit. The current team would be disbanded in a draft. Make them start fresh with a minor league roster. I despise cheaters. That would send a message to the league and fans.

This goes beyond stealing the championship. It's defrauding the league by padding player stats that go onto free agency with huge contracts that they didn't earn, or they could be traded for a better return, this ripping off other teams. For example Mookie Betts is a .290 hitter over the rest of his career, but he hit .346 in 2018, and raised his slugging and OPS by 200 points After they were caught the following year he went back to his usual .295. While still a good player, after his 2018 season he was viewed as the best in the league.

 

[coconut]

that doesn't work because they cheated teams on the way to the World Series. those teams are as deserving as the Dodgers, i.e. The Yankees





Boston's manager, Alex Cora came from the Astros organization. He was an assistant coach there. So it's likely that this cheating goes back further.


I'd ban all coaches involved and force the owner to sell. All the players would have to turn in their rings and pay back any extra money they got from the series and playoffs because they were complicit. The current team would be disbanded in a draft. Make them start fresh with a minor league roster. I despise cheaters. That would send a message to the league and fans.

This goes beyond stealing the championship. It's defrauding the league by padding player stats that go onto free agency with huge contracts that they didn't earn, or they could be traded for a better return, this ripping off other teams. For example Mookie Betts is a .290 hitter over the rest of his career, but he hit .346 in 2018, and raised his slugging and OPS by 200 points After they were caught the following year he went back to his usual .295. While still a good player, after his 2018 season he was viewed as the best in the league.

I agree extra draft picks is a piss poor punishment. However the measures you propose would never be agreed to by the MLB owners or the players union. You have made a good case for the tangential effects of cheating but it will likely have to remain a self policing issue between teams.

 

[dieterbrock]

For example Mookie Betts is a .290 hitter over the rest of his career, but he hit .346 in 2018, and raised his slugging and OPS by 200 points After they were caught the following year he went back to his usual .295. While still a good player, after his 2018 season he was viewed as the best in the league.

Wow, very interesting indeed, check this out
Mookie Betts slash line at Fenway Park:
Career: .319ba/ .387 OB%/ .542 slugging/ .930 OPS
2018: .364ba/ .461 OB%/ .657 slugging/ 1.118 OPS
2019: .314ba/ .408 OB%/ .569 slugging/ .977 OPS

Furthermore, how about JD Martinez?
2018 .334ba/ .405 OB%/ .683 slugging/ 1.051 OPS
2019 .274ba/ .346 OB%/ .552 slugging/ .918 OPS