How much of our woe is field turf related?

[TheTackle]

I can’t help wondering if playing so many home games early has been a major factor in our injury crisis? If so, the team would remain silent on it and of course it’s the owner who would decide. The field turf at SoFi is not only there to play football on

Thoughts?

From AstroTurf to 'frankenturf': Inside the NFL's behind-the-scenes battle to fix its turf problem

For more than a decade, the NFL has been chasing an ambitious goal: to unveil a 'frankenturf' that is safer than natural grass.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[jrry32]

We've generally stayed relatively healthy over the years. I doubt there's a connection. We were simply due for some bad luck.

 

[Rambitious1]

^^^^^^^
This

Now SF - as often as they are injured, I suspect something they are doing or not doing is contributing to it.
Not sure if it’s turf, equipment, drafting players with injury history, or practice regimen or what, but they’re contributing to it somehow.

 

[TheTackle]

We've generally stayed relatively healthy over the years. I doubt there's a connection. We were simply due for some bad luck.

Is it simply that or did the law of probabilities catch up with us? Did we more likely get lucky before?

“The data supports the anecdotes you’ll hear from me and other players: artificial turf is significantly harder on the body than grass. Based on NFL injury data collected from 2012 to 2018, not only was the contact injury rate for lower extremities higher during practices and games held on artificial turf, NFL players consistently experienced a much higher rate of non-contact lower extremity injuries on turf compared to natural surfaces. Specifically, players have a 28% higher rate of non-contact lower extremity injuries when playing on artificial turf. Of those non-contact injuries, players have a 32% higher rate of non-contact knee injuries on turf and a staggering 69% higher rate of non-contact foot/ankle injuries on turf compared to grass”

Only Natural Grass Can Level The NFL’s Playing Field

nflpa.com

 

[TheTackle]

^^^^^^^
This

Now SF - as often as they are injured, I suspect something they are doing or not doing is contributing to it.
Not sure if it’s turf, equipment, drafting players with injury history, or practice regimen or what, but they’re contributing to it somehow.

I think Jrry’s argument about luck is more convincing although as you will see, luck also involves probabilities

 

[Rambitious1]

I think Jrry’s argument about luck is more convincing although as you will see, luck also involves probabilities

Not when it’s year after year. Admittedly the statistical probabilities come in when it’s year after year.
No question SF has at least ‘contributed’ to their multi- year mass injury history. Stressing multi year….
Almost a statistical certainty.

 

[TheTackle]

Not when it’s year after year. Admittedly the statistical probabilities come in when it’s year after year.
No question SF has at least ‘contributed’ to their multi- year mass injury history. Stressing multi year….
Almost a statistical certainty.

Sorry, I misunderstood your point

In our case, we know they have some of the best minds in the sport regarding injury prevention and so I can't help wondering if the turf should be a major concern?

I was worried about it coming into the season after what happened to OBJ (which could have cost us the SB) but it's only now that we have a breather that I reflected on this issue. Both of the articles I posted make a compelling case

 

[ScotsRam]

There's no evidence that turf causes more injuries than grass. Nada. They've done loads of studies in soccer on this as well. If there was a direct correlation these owners wouldn't put their investments (I.e. their players) at unnecessary additional risk.

Players of all sports don't like playing on turf, but they're no more likely to get injured. I'll look out some of the studies.

 

[Tumak61]

I'm think playing so deep into the season doesn't allow for enough rest before the next season. One of the reasons you see down years with some teams the next year after the Super Bowl. Rams are getting guys back so hopefully that is behind the team.

 

[den-the-coach]

FWIW the whole reason field turf was developed was to offer the best solution for playing surface. Now granted grass gives, but field turf offers quite a bit of pluses too.

Watering vs. Cutting
When it comes to watering versus cutting the turf field has it hands down over the natural grass field. Both need to be watered but for different reasons. Natural grass must be watered often to ensure proper grass growth. The turf field must be watered simply to remove dust and dirt buildup.

Wear From Traffic
When it comes to foot traffic on turf as compared to grass fields, again turf fields take it hands down. Foot traffic can make bare spots on a natural grass field. Turf is far more equipped to handle foot traffic without noticeable wear and tear.

Durability
Turf fields are clearly far more durable than natural grass fields. They handle foot traffic better. If the turf is well-maintained, it can last for up to 20 years or more if you use the proper artificial turf care maintenance.

Ease of Cleaning
Turf fields are much easier to clean than are natural grass fields. If leaves get on turf it only takes a blower to blow them off. If dust and dirt get on it then you simply need to hose it off or let the rain take care of it.

Long Term Maintenance Costs
While the initial cost of installation of a turf field can be heavy, the long-term maintenance cost will make the difference over the years of use. Natural grass fields need constant watering, seeding, cutting, pesticide application and etc. Turf fields need none of that. There are maintenance costs associated with them, but it is less in the long term.

Appearance
Turf fields will maintain their appearance much better over the long term than natural grass fields. They handle wear and tear better and weather better, so they won’t turn brown in high temperatures.

Choice of Grass Type
When purchasing a turf field, the organization can choose what kind of grass they want. From length to thickness and type of grass they have many options to choose from.

Eco-Friendly
Because turf does not require pesticides or nearly as much water, it is much more eco-friendly than natural grass fields.

Water Conservation
Turf fields don’t require watering on a regular basis. If they get dusty and dirty you can simply hose them off. If you live in a rainy region then the rain can do that job for you.

Water Runoff
Turf fields are better able to handle water run off than natural grass fields. They can be used to catch the water and use it for other applications.

 

[TheTackle]

FWIW the whole reason field turf was developed was to offer the best solution for playing surface. Now granted grass gives, but field turf offers quite a bit of pluses too.

Watering vs. Cutting
When it comes to watering versus cutting the turf field has it hands down over the natural grass field. Both need to be watered but for different reasons. Natural grass must be watered often to ensure proper grass growth. The turf field must be watered simply to remove dust and dirt buildup.

Wear From Traffic
When it comes to foot traffic on turf as compared to grass fields, again turf fields take it hands down. Foot traffic can make bare spots on a natural grass field. Turf is far more equipped to handle foot traffic without noticeable wear and tear.

Durability
Turf fields are clearly far more durable than natural grass fields. They handle foot traffic better. If the turf is well-maintained, it can last for up to 20 years or more if you use the proper artificial turf care maintenance.

Ease of Cleaning
Turf fields are much easier to clean than are natural grass fields. If leaves get on turf it only takes a blower to blow them off. If dust and dirt get on it then you simply need to hose it off or let the rain take care of it.

Long Term Maintenance Costs
While the initial cost of installation of a turf field can be heavy, the long-term maintenance cost will make the difference over the years of use. Natural grass fields need constant watering, seeding, cutting, pesticide application and etc. Turf fields need none of that. There are maintenance costs associated with them, but it is less in the long term.

Appearance
Turf fields will maintain their appearance much better over the long term than natural grass fields. They handle wear and tear better and weather better, so they won’t turn brown in high temperatures.

Choice of Grass Type
When purchasing a turf field, the organization can choose what kind of grass they want. From length to thickness and type of grass they have many options to choose from.

Eco-Friendly
Because turf does not require pesticides or nearly as much water, it is much more eco-friendly than natural grass fields.

Water Conservation
Turf fields don’t require watering on a regular basis. If they get dusty and dirty you can simply hose them off. If you live in a rainy region then the rain can do that job for you.

Water Runoff
Turf fields are better able to handle water run off than natural grass fields. They can be used to catch the water and use it for other applications.

All of that I agree with but that doesn’t mean it’s as safe, OBJ being one example among many, particularly in high contact sports where your cleats can more easily get stuck than on grass. Many of the reasons speak to using the field for an array of activities including concerts

In terms of football the evidence seems somewhat clear that grass is safer. The articles discuss this in detail

 

[TheTackle]

There's no evidence that turf causes more injuries than grass. Nada. They've done loads of studies in soccer on this as well. If there was a direct correlation these owners wouldn't put their investments (I.e. their players) at unnecessary additional risk.

Players of all sports don't like playing on turf, but they're no more likely to get injured. I'll look out some of the studies.

I think no evidence is misleading I am afraid. Did you read the articles? Many commentators have spoken about what happened to OBJ as he tried to cut and his foot appeared to get stuck

 

[TheTackle]

I'm think playing so deep into the season doesn't allow for enough rest before the next season. One of the reasons you see down years with some teams the next year after the Super Bowl. Rams are getting guys back so hopefully that is behind the team.

I don’t agree I am afraid. Some of these players didn’t start or even play in the SB. That could be a contributing factor but these are not soft muscle tears

 

[Merlin]

I never played on turf and back then if I did it would have been the old shitty kind of turf. So no idea though it seems like modern turf provides more grip than grass does. Which makes me think maybe the issue is in the shoe/cleat technology, and they need to find designs that more closely resemble the grip that grass gives.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I think no evidence is misleading I am afraid. Did you read the articles? Many commentators have spoken about what happened to OBJ as he tried to cut and his foot appeared to get stuck

OBJ already had an improperly repaired knee. So basically he had a weak knee.

 

[snackdaddy]

This is the 3rd year playing at Sofi. Didn't seem too much of an issue the first two years. I think its just bad luck. Most years the team has been relatively healthy.

Although 2019 saw some injuries to the offensive line causing them to play first and second year guys who weren't ready. I think this year its worse because the depth at that position was razor thin to begin with.

And its not like the starters are a top group as it is. A questionable starting group with no depth was always going to rear its ugly head.

 

[gogoat1]

Its LA and should be grass. Fantastic stadium, but Arizona has something on So Fi with that sweet natural grass field INDOORS.
The Rams should have found a way.

 

[XXXIVwin]

There's no evidence that turf causes more injuries than grass. Nada. They've done loads of studies in soccer on this as well. If there was a direct correlation these owners wouldn't put their investments (I.e. their players) at unnecessary additional risk.

Players of all sports don't like playing on turf, but they're no more likely to get injured. I'll look out some of the studies.

I'd disagree that there's "nada" in terms of studies out there that suggest turf fields are correlated with a higher frequency of soft-tissue lower extremity injuries. A quick google search suggests (to me at least) that the evidence is mounting that turf is correlated with more injuries than grass. Here's one of several:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0363546518808499

My guess is that owners would be in favor of turf for monetary reasons. Unfortunately I think most owners would accept a higher risk to their players if it meant more $ to their bottom line. It's cheaper to maintain, it looks great on TV, and it holds up better for other events in the stadium (concerts, etc. etc.).

Players know that the turf is harder on their bodies, and causes more injuries. Eventually I think the studies will prove that the player's instincts on this are correct. Yeah the turf is better than the Astroturf of the 60s and 70s, but its still not as a safe as grass, IMHO.

EDIT: I just read the article posted by the OP. There is a TON of info in that article. As is often the case, the answer is... "it's complicated." Sounds like the synthetic turfs get better and safer every year, but they're still not quite there yet.

 

[TheTackle]

Perhaps this thread was too easily dismissed. Discuss?

"It's not even close," Kupp said, per ESPN's Sarah Barshop. "I know there's stuff going around the league right now, there's some issues. Hands down, we should be playing on grass. Hands down, we should be on grass. And that's all I'm going to say."

“During the Chargers-Seattle Seahawks Week 7 game, both Seattle wide receiver DK Metcalf and Los Angeles cornerback J.C. Jackson suffered non-contact knee injuries”

Rams WR Cooper Kupp makes opinion on grass vs. turf fields clear

Kupp's comments come in the wake of a spur of non-contact injuries taking place at SoFi Stadium.

www.yardbarker.com

 

[Corbin]

All of that I agree with but that doesn’t mean it’s as safe, OBJ being one example among many, particularly in high contact sports where your cleats can more easily get stuck than on grass. Many of the reasons speak to using the field for an array of activities including concerts

In terms of football the evidence seems somewhat clear that grass is safer. The articles discuss this in detail

I read somewhere that OBJ's original surgery was a botched job and wasn't done right (don't know the details) and a lawsuit was considered at the time (it's been months since February or March I read this). Thinking that had more to due with his injury than the turf.