2025 Life without the big 3

[oldnotdead]

That year is going to be a huge test for this franchise. Will their plans for the future be vindicated or will it be a year of question marks?

The big 3 superstars on this team look to retire in 2025. Stafford, Kupp, and Donald will probably retire in that year. It will make a hell of a HOF class for the Rams in 2030.

QB1 TBD: I think the Rams draft Stafford's successor in 2024 and I think that has been their master plan since they extended Matt. I think Penix or Nix have to be high on their wish list because they both are fits for McVay's style of offense.

WR1: Nacua is already looking like a very able replacement for Kupp. He's modeled his game after Kupp while he was still in college and now he's being mentored by him.

DT: Turner is looking like a very able replacement for AD. He's playing out of position a lot this year at NT but the talent is clear.

I think they draft their new #1RB next year as well. Someone like Notre Dame Audric Estime in the late 3rd or even 4th round. He's 5'11" weighs 227 and times at 4.47. He also can catch. I suppose what I like about the kid is he's a grinder who isn't flashy but will get those tough yards, something this offense lacks. If they aren't going to get the take it to the house explosive RB then get that guy that will keep the chains moving. That was the value of Michel. The Rams might not have that Lombardi if it wasn't for him.

The OL will be seasoned and they could have new OT's from 2024 onwards. I think the jury is still out on Jackson as a franchise LT. I pegged him before TC as a RT and still think that would be his best fit. That said his ego might not allow him to make the transition. Noteboom's health would be the only issue with him at either OT position. I think their IOL is set with Avila, Shelton and Dotson.

If Atwell can continue his trajectory he will be a starter in the slot or at Z. I think they will be drafting a WR in 2024 to be that third starter in 2025.

Defensively, I don't see Morris as DC in 2024. I think Pleasant replaces him and Lake takes over the DBs. I see them returning to the 3-4 hybrid one gap front 7. They will be solid at safety but it's TBD at CB. I can see Witherspoon on one side, perhaps Durant opposite him with Tomlinson at SCB. The problem with Durant in Morris' scheme is Durant is a man coverage style CB not a zone CB. I can see Pleasant returning to a mixture of man and zone coverages. They probably will be a top 12 defensive unit.

Outlook: the Rams should be a contender from 2025 going forward.

 

[Merlin]

I wouldn't rule out AD wanting to move to a contender this offseason. He decided to stick around post-Super Bowl and has endured two shitty rosters but is still better than 90% of the DL in this league. I don't want him to move, once again and for the record, but this type of thing happens when the player wants another shot at a ring and I presume he will be thinking about it because if I were in his shoes I would be thinking about it.

And I realize the cap is probably fugly with any of the three moving. But the Rams are very creative and if there are picks coming back to them I presume it is possible they could move one of the them.

My hope of course is we have another fine draft, as that is going to be required to contend in '24. They need cornerstone players badly too, the LT, Edge, Corner types. They also need a QBotF. Granted they should have an ability to maybe fill one of those cornerstone spots in FA, or so I hope. But I wouldn't say 2024 is a slam dunk to contend.

Also and btw if they don't make the most of a weak sched in the latter half of 2023, and fail to have a strong enough offseason to contend in 2024, there will be changes. We could even see changes at either HC or GM this offseason. I know McVay has said he is feeling refreshed but what if he gets a massive TV offer. The guy is young enough to do that for a few years then jump back in if the itch is still there. And even if he wants to stick around it is possible Kroenke elects to make a move at GM. Point is losing tends to equal heads rolling and that will be true even with a top owner like ours if we don't see a strong second half of 2023.

So 2025 is a long way out. Lot of moving parts and too many things could go sideways to even say we won't have a whole new regime in here at that point. This past offseason was an obvious break point where you would want to restack at head coach but the Rams were all-in with McVay. He's a special case in terms of his quality as a head coach, but that does not make either him or Snead immune to the universal truths of this business.

 

[HE WITH HORNS]

I think we will be much better off. We are spending most of our salary cap on those 3 players, and only Donald is coming close to earning his pay.

 

[Tumak61]

The Stafford to Kupp combo just hasn't been there for awhile now. Maybe less podcasts and more on the field working on timing.

 

[brucebruce]

yeah what's with these podcasts? don't tell me that they also waste precious practice time by showering!

 

[NYCRam]

I wouldn't rule out AD wanting to move to a contender this offseason. He decided to stick around post-Super Bowl and has endured two shitty rosters but is still better than 90% of the DL in this league. I don't want him to move, once again and for the record, but this type of thing happens when the player wants another shot at a ring and I presume he will be thinking about it because if I were in his shoes I would be thinking about it.

And I realize the cap is probably fugly with any of the three moving. But the Rams are very creative and if there are picks coming back to them I presume it is possible they could move one of the them.

My hope of course is we have another fine draft, as that is going to be required to contend in '24. They need cornerstone players badly too, the LT, Edge, Corner types. They also need a QBotF. Granted they should have an ability to maybe fill one of those cornerstone spots in FA, or so I hope. But I wouldn't say 2024 is a slam dunk to contend.

Also and btw if they don't make the most of a weak sched in the latter half of 2023, and fail to have a strong enough offseason to contend in 2024, there will be changes. We could even see changes at either HC or GM this offseason. I know McVay has said he is feeling refreshed but what if he gets a massive TV offer. The guy is young enough to do that for a few years then jump back in if the itch is still there. And even if he wants to stick around it is possible Kroenke elects to make a move at GM. Point is losing tends to equal heads rolling and that will be true even with a top owner like ours if we don't see a strong second half of 2023.

So 2025 is a long way out. Lot of moving parts and too many things could go sideways to even say we won't have a whole new regime in here at that point. This past offseason was an obvious break point where you would want to restack at head coach but the Rams were all-in with McVay. He's a special case in terms of his quality as a head coach, but that does not make either him or Snead immune to the universal truths of this business.

Would love if AD wanted out. He's the only one of the big three that would bring back a 1st (at least). Time to rebuild it.

 

[Tumak61]

yeah what's with these podcasts? don't tell me that they also waste precious practice time by showering!

As long at they change their jocks every few days.

 

[oldnotdead]

I think it's pretty clear something is going on with McVay. His playcalling and game management has really slipped this season. It's why I floated the prospect of a coaching change. I think Snead is very safe but I think Snead and Kroenke will sit down with McVay in January and find out what the fuck is wrong with him.

I was actually very serious about Kalen DeBoer. This guy is rock solid and has been a winner he's 98-11 in his HC career. If they get Penix or Nix, DeBoer would be a natural guy to look long and hard at. I really like McVay but something isn't right with him the last two years. I think this is his job to either commit to or walk away from coaching. As a husband and father, the life of an NFL coach is about as stressful as it gets when it comes to time commitments. If he's going to leave I think it will be at the end of the season. Hire DeBoer and let him bring his own staff. Look at the job he's done with Penix in 2 years. He's developed him into an NFL ready elite prospect.

McVay talks about being re-energized but frankly, I see the exact opposite. He's not the same guy post Super Bowl. Now with his new family, he's got to be reassessing his priorities. If it was me, I'd put the family first. He's been averaging about $14M/year since his extension and with a net worth of about $40M he's not hurting for money. You know he could more than double his current salary with a media job.

Right now I see it as 60/40 his probability of leaving is greater. Why do I feel that way? Rumors of the Rams being discreetly exploring outside coaching options IMO are more than rumors. Husky OC Ryan Grubb turned down offers to be a HC at the beginning of the current season to stay at Washington. He would be next in line to take over the program if DeBoer leaves. I think DeBoer is looking to move up to the NFL next year.

If Kroenke and Snead are going to make a change next year would be the year to do it. DeBoer knows both Penix and Nix very well and DeBoer's Washington offense is a very good fit for the Ram's offensive personnel. Washington plays a very aggressive defense of both man and zone. I could see him bringing his DC with him. DeBoer will be courted by a whole lot of teams. But the LA market probably trumps them all.

If Kroenke and Snead decide to change IMO DeBoer should be their target and with this huge market profile, I don't see DeBoer declining a Ram's offer. The Rams deserve an elite HC and if McVay simply can't get his heart into it then it's time to move on. McVay has HOF credentials already but that doesn't mean he can't be replaced. But like I said it's his job to walk away from.

 

[NYCRam]

The Stafford to Kupp combo just hasn't been there for awhile now. Maybe less podcasts and more on the field working on timing.

I think it's pretty clear something is going on with McVay. His playcalling and game management has really slipped this season. It's why I floated the prospect of a coaching change. I think Snead is very safe but I think Snead and Kroenke will sit down with McVay in January and find out what the fuck is wrong with him.

I was actually very serious about Kalen DeBoer. This guy is rock solid and has been a winner he's 98-11 in his HC career. If they get Penix or Nix, DeBoer would be a natural guy to look long and hard at. I really like McVay but something isn't right with him the last two years. I think this is his job to either commit to or walk away from coaching. As a husband and father, the life of an NFL coach is about as stressful as it gets when it comes to time commitments. If he's going to leave I think it will be at the end of the season. Hire DeBoer and let him bring his own staff. Look at the job he's done with Penix in 2 years. He's developed him into an NFL ready elite prospect.

McVay talks about being re-energized but frankly, I see the exact opposite. He's not the same guy post Super Bowl. Now with his new family, he's got to be reassessing his priorities. If it was me, I'd put the family first. He's been averaging about $14M/year since his extension and with a net worth of about $40M he's not hurting for money. You know he could more than double his current salary with a media job.

Right now I see it as 60/40 his probability of leaving is greater. Why do I feel that way? Rumors of the Rams being discreetly exploring outside coaching options IMO are more than rumors. Husky OC Ryan Grubb turned down offers to be a HC at the beginning of the current season to stay at Washington. He would be next in line to take over the program if DeBoer leaves. I think DeBoer is looking to move up to the NFL next year.

If Kroenke and Snead are going to make a change next year would be the year to do it. DeBoer knows both Penix and Nix very well and DeBoer's Washington offense is a very good fit for the Ram's offensive personnel. Washington plays a very aggressive defense of both man and zone. I could see him bringing his DC with him. DeBoer will be courted by a whole lot of teams. But the LA market probably trumps them all.

If Kroenke and Snead decide to change IMO DeBoer should be their target and with this huge market profile, I don't see DeBoer declining a Ram's offer. The Rams deserve an elite HC and if McVay simply can't get his heart into it then it's time to move on. McVay has HOF credentials already but that doesn't mean he can't be replaced. But like I said it's his job to walk away from.

I would actually love this. For McVay to go to the booth. Sean came on the scene and NOBODY could stop him. 2017 and 18 put up insane numbers. Never lost after having a halftime lead etc. The league adjusted to him (Fangio? Bears game '18?) And he has never sufficiently adjusted back IMO. He got a shot of adrenaline when Stafford replaced Goff but that's dissipating already.

oldnothead, can you kindly inform me and expand on the "Rams discreetly exploring outside Coaching options" rumors as this is the first I'm hearing of it.

 

[AvengerRam]

 

[Londoner]

oldnothead

Sounds like my missus.

 

[Merlin]

I think it's pretty clear something is going on with McVay. His playcalling and game management has really slipped this season. It's why I floated the prospect of a coaching change. I think Snead is very safe but I think Snead and Kroenke will sit down with McVay in January and find out what the fuck is wrong with him.

Your problem is you are operating in a fantasy land where you sold yourself the idea that this roster is top shelf. They're not. This staff at large is the only reason we have a chance to do well in the latter half of this sched in fact, because a few stars and a bunch of dudes is not how you win in this league.

But if this team loses for whatever reason in the second half of this season yes it is possible (not likely but you cannot rule it out) that Kroenke makes a change. And if he does, you can bet he will get after the top coach on the market, whoever that is, but it would be a full house cleaning in that event. No way Snead survives that because top coaches will want to be paired with a GM they know or trust or at least who they vetted.

And the reason for all this is because the Rams would be drafting quite high in a QB rich draft. Which is where you want to be as a new coaching hire. A guy like let's say Harbaugh would dislike this roster but Stan is attractive as a top owner in this league and Harbaugh would want to be able to pick his QB.

All told though I think it is unlikely. I just don't feel comfortable ruling it out.

 

[Giles]

I think it's pretty clear something is going on with McVay. His playcalling and game management has really slipped this season. It's why I floated the prospect of a coaching change. I think Snead is very safe but I think Snead and Kroenke will sit down with McVay in January and find out what the fuck is wrong with him.

I was actually very serious about Kalen DeBoer. This guy is rock solid and has been a winner he's 98-11 in his HC career. If they get Penix or Nix, DeBoer would be a natural guy to look long and hard at. I really like McVay but something isn't right with him the last two years. I think this is his job to either commit to or walk away from coaching. As a husband and father, the life of an NFL coach is about as stressful as it gets when it comes to time commitments. If he's going to leave I think it will be at the end of the season. Hire DeBoer and let him bring his own staff. Look at the job he's done with Penix in 2 years. He's developed him into an NFL ready elite prospect.

McVay talks about being re-energized but frankly, I see the exact opposite. He's not the same guy post Super Bowl. Now with his new family, he's got to be reassessing his priorities. If it was me, I'd put the family first. He's been averaging about $14M/year since his extension and with a net worth of about $40M he's not hurting for money. You know he could more than double his current salary with a media job.

Right now I see it as 60/40 his probability of leaving is greater. Why do I feel that way? Rumors of the Rams being discreetly exploring outside coaching options IMO are more than rumors. Husky OC Ryan Grubb turned down offers to be a HC at the beginning of the current season to stay at Washington. He would be next in line to take over the program if DeBoer leaves. I think DeBoer is looking to move up to the NFL next year.

If Kroenke and Snead are going to make a change next year would be the year to do it. DeBoer knows both Penix and Nix very well and DeBoer's Washington offense is a very good fit for the Ram's offensive personnel. Washington plays a very aggressive defense of both man and zone. I could see him bringing his DC with him. DeBoer will be courted by a whole lot of teams. But the LA market probably trumps them all.

If Kroenke and Snead decide to change IMO DeBoer should be their target and with this huge market profile, I don't see DeBoer declining a Ram's offer. The Rams deserve an elite HC and if McVay simply can't get his heart into it then it's time to move on. McVay has HOF credentials already but that doesn't mean he can't be replaced. But like I said it's his job to walk away from.

No shot snead is safe. Matter of fact I bet he gets canned b4 mcvay. His drafts have not been good. (2 pro bowlers in the mcsnead era and 1 was Pharoah cooper)

 

[Allen2McVay]

I see things differently.

This is not a strong roster. The Defense is almost entirely late round draft choices and undrafted free agents. The Offense has some talent but little depth. Yet the Rams have been competitive in every game up until last week. Except for the bizarre decision to roll Derion Kendrick out there every week, I think this Coaching Staff has done an Outstanding Job.

The Rams are being coached hard, and to win. They are playing hard, and to win. They simply lack talent.

Management clearly stated it was a Re-Set Year. That's EXACTLY what it has been thus far.

Management said it was going to bite-the-bullet on spending to get the Salary Cap in order. That's Exactly what it has done. The Rams were the only team in the entire League NOT to sign a free agent from another team during Free Agency. Management dropped and gave-away players, taking-on tremendous Dead-$.

The Rams have more than $75M of Dead-$ on their 2023 Cap ... the 2nd highest in the NFL.
Currently, their Dead-$ for 2024 is under $750,000. That's 99% Less than this year's number.

When they have needed to replace injured players this year, they have NOT spent money.

McVay said a month ago that the Rams did not figure to add players at the Trade Deadline. They did not.

Why and How a number of posters expected the 2023 Rams to be a good team made no sense to me. Now, when it looks like the 2023 Rams are Not a good team, some of the same posters express anger, frustration and disappointment at the Organization, Coaching Staff and Players.

I just think those posters' evaluations and expectations were wrong.

In my opinion this season (thus far) is Exactly what it looked like it would and should be.

 

[RamDino]

The team played "over their heads" for 6 quarters at the beginning of the season and then lost their confidence and cracks startes appearing. They got our hopes up, big time, and that's why we are disappointed at this point in the season. All we can do now is hope that Snead and Mcvay can turn it around next year.

And I do NOT want to trade Aaron Donald. I hope that he plays for 1 or 2 more years because he likes it and the money is great. I want him to retire a Ram. Of course if he wants out... I would accommodate him.

 

[RamBall]

That year is going to be a huge test for this franchise. Will their plans for the future be vindicated or will it be a year of question marks?

The big 3 superstars on this team look to retire in 2025. Stafford, Kupp, and Donald will probably retire in that year. It will make a hell of a HOF class for the Rams in 2030.

QB1 TBD: I think the Rams draft Stafford's successor in 2024 and I think that has been their master plan since they extended Matt. I think Penix or Nix have to be high on their wish list because they both are fits for McVay's style of offense.

WR1: Nacua is already looking like a very able replacement for Kupp. He's modeled his game after Kupp while he was still in college and now he's being mentored by him.

DT: Turner is looking like a very able replacement for AD. He's playing out of position a lot this year at NT but the talent is clear.

I think they draft their new #1RB next year as well. Someone like Notre Dame Audric Estime in the late 3rd or even 4th round. He's 5'11" weighs 227 and times at 4.47. He also can catch. I suppose what I like about the kid is he's a grinder who isn't flashy but will get those tough yards, something this offense lacks. If they aren't going to get the take it to the house explosive RB then get that guy that will keep the chains moving. That was the value of Michel. The Rams might not have that Lombardi if it wasn't for him.

The OL will be seasoned and they could have new OT's from 2024 onwards. I think the jury is still out on Jackson as a franchise LT. I pegged him before TC as a RT and still think that would be his best fit. That said his ego might not allow him to make the transition. Noteboom's health would be the only issue with him at either OT position. I think their IOL is set with Avila, Shelton and Dotson.

If Atwell can continue his trajectory he will be a starter in the slot or at Z. I think they will be drafting a WR in 2024 to be that third starter in 2025.

Defensively, I don't see Morris as DC in 2024. I think Pleasant replaces him and Lake takes over the DBs. I see them returning to the 3-4 hybrid one gap front 7. They will be solid at safety but it's TBD at CB. I can see Witherspoon on one side, perhaps Durant opposite him with Tomlinson at SCB. The problem with Durant in Morris' scheme is Durant is a man coverage style CB not a zone CB. I can see Pleasant returning to a mixture of man and zone coverages. They probably will be a top 12 defensive unit.

Outlook: the Rams should be a contender from 2025 going forward.

Not sure about the big 3, but as long as Big Rob is around to anchor the OL, we will be fine.

 

[oldnotdead]

Talent needs to be properly used to be effective. Case in point:

This OL has shown that it can run block effectively. I mean McVay came out and started a second half with 9 straight run leading to a score. Yet since then he has inexplicably not used the run to the Ram's advantage. In games where even a novice could see they needed to run the ball he didn't. Also, with Freeman averaging over 5 yds a carry McVay stays with Henderson as the lead back who is averaging a bit over 3 yds per carry.

They get backed up when they have just fought their way back in a game then McVay calls for a pass in a game where they are struggling to protect, with turnover prone Stafford who promptly throws a pick 6. Huh?

McVay's playcalling and game planning have been subpar this year. People say this is a subpar team because of their record. They have played well enough to have a winning record. Tutu's TD negated by point shaving refs who clearly violated their own stated policy cost them a win. A kicker signed by McVay who had a record of choking with Dallas is signed by McVay with no alternative on the PS cost them a second win. So how does that equate into a bad team? This team played well enough to have 5 wins right now.

Talk about people living in an alternate reality. Too many on this board are like PFF who don't apparently know what they are seeing. Despite everything this team's record does not reflect how well they have played overall.

This was all done over the hardest part of their season schedule. There were many on this board who felt that 3-4 wins over the entire season was realistic back in August. There is no reason they can't finish with at least 9 wins. McVay and Morris need to get their heads out of their asses and it can be done. Run the fucking ball more when they need to. Quit abandoning the run game. Morris needs to quit trotting out his boy DK who is simply a crucial penalty waiting to happen. McVay needs to grow some balls and fire his ass.

People act as if the season is over. It's far from over. If they win in GB they are just one down with the softest part of the schedule ahead of them. There are nine games left to play. With Stafford out yeah it's going to be tough. What it means is McVay is going to need to game plan the hell out of those games. He's going to have to reverse his tendency and lead with his run game not his pass game. The Rams have rushed for 876 yds in 8 games so it's not like they can't run the ball. Their rushing average is over 4 yds per carry and that's with Hendersons pedestrian average dragging it down.

C'mon Sean open your mind. Use a ball control offense vs GB. Limit their possessions. Run the ball with short quick passes occasionally. They have the OL to do it. They have the RB in Freeman to do it. So fucking do it McVay! Rypien is probably good enough to play that style of offense. Running the ball is has a lot to do with mindset. The OL proved they have it.

With Rypien if the Rams finish 8-9 I'd be happy. They would fall in the middle of the draft making their QB easier to move up to get. They would have told the media fuck you with a huge finger. Nahh I sure as hell haven't given up and don't understand those who call themselves Ram supporters who have thrown in the towel already.

 

[RamFanWA]

Talent needs to be properly used to be effective. Case in point:

This OL has shown that it can run block effectively. I mean McVay came out and started a second half with 9 straight run leading to a score. Yet since then he has inexplicably not used the run to the Ram's advantage. In games where even a novice could see they needed to run the ball he didn't. Also, with Freeman averaging over 5 yds a carry McVay stays with Henderson as the lead back who is averaging a bit over 3 yds per carry.

They get backed up when they have just fought their way back in a game then McVay calls for a pass in a game where they are struggling to protect, with turnover prone Stafford who promptly throws a pick 6. Huh?

McVay's playcalling and game planning have been subpar this year. People say this is a subpar team because of their record. They have played well enough to have a winning record. Tutu's TD negated by point shaving refs who clearly violated their own stated policy cost them a win. A kicker signed by McVay who had a record of choking with Dallas is signed by McVay with no alternative on the PS cost them a second win. So how does that equate into a bad team? This team played well enough to have 5 wins right now.

Talk about people living in an alternate reality. Too many on this board are like PFF who don't apparently know what they are seeing. Despite everything this team's record does not reflect how well they have played overall.

This was all done over the hardest part of their season schedule. There were many on this board who felt that 3-4 wins over the entire season was realistic back in August. There is no reason they can't finish with at least 9 wins. McVay and Morris need to get their heads out of their asses and it can be done. Run the fucking ball more when they need to. Quit abandoning the run game. Morris needs to quit trotting out his boy DK who is simply a crucial penalty waiting to happen. McVay needs to grow some balls and fire his ass.

People act as if the season is over. It's far from over. If they win in GB they are just one down with the softest part of the schedule ahead of them. There are nine games left to play. With Stafford out yeah it's going to be tough. What it means is McVay is going to need to game plan the hell out of those games. He's going to have to reverse his tendency and lead with his run game not his pass game. The Rams have rushed for 876 yds in 8 games so it's not like they can't run the ball. Their rushing average is over 4 yds per carry and that's with Hendersons pedestrian average dragging it down.

C'mon Sean open your mind. Use a ball control offense vs GB. Limit their possessions. Run the ball with short quick passes occasionally. They have the OL to do it. They have the RB in Freeman to do it. So fucking do it McVay! Rypien is probably good enough to play that style of offense. Running the ball is has a lot to do with mindset. The OL proved they have it.

With Rypien if the Rams finish 8-9 I'd be happy. They would fall in the middle of the draft making their QB easier to move up to get. They would have told the media fuck you with a huge finger. Nahh I sure as hell haven't given up and don't understand those who call themselves Ram supporters who have thrown in the towel already.

What he said.... Just RUN the damn ball, Sean!!!!!

 

[oldnotdead]

oldnothead, can you kindly inform me and expand on the "Rams discreetly exploring outside Coaching options" rumors as this is the first I'm hearing of it.

I have friends and family in Seattle still. Some actually work for UW in their athletic department. My sister's husband works for one of the bigger agencies. Feelers from the Rams have been made to various agents of high profile coaches. Just the kind you make to gauge availability. They did it right after the Super Bowl when McVay talked about not returning, most felt it was money related back then so most knew Kroenke wouldn't let him go so the general feeling was that these inquiries were nothing. But this time it's not so innocuous. There is a whole new "vibe" about these seemingly innocent inquiries.

 

[Loyal]

You mean the Big 3, doesn't include Big Rob?

BTW, there is no "able" replacement for AD in existence.